Let's take it to the next level SWW...

[blue4u]

I love this program. There's nothing like it in concept or design. It's creative, innovative and has changed the way guitarists record. I truly hope it thrives and keeps improving. That's why I am going to be honest here. This is not personal and certainly not intended for the purposes of my own rant. I believe it is time to deliver the goods on this product's potential! Here's what is holding it back:

1. I am using TonePort KB37. It wouldn't work AT ALL with the Line6 edition of RW2 so, I upgraded to RW2 Standard. It worked. Well, sort of. Guitar Rig and some other VSTs completely crash Riffworks. So, I have to unplug the USB from my I/O device and start over. Several things have crashed this combination. Changing the instant drummer and changing presets in Guitar Rig are 2. It's honestly so unstable I don't even bother using it with Guitar Rig or other VSTs with the exception of Amplitube which, in fairness works great The VST feature was an important one to add. However, in its current implementation it doesn't deliver.

2. The link between SonomaWireworks and Line6 has to be broken. Line6 doesn't support this product anymore. At least that has been my experience. As such this is going to confuse A LOT of people about whose product it is. There are posts on the Line6 forums that speak to this point. I understand that the Line6 name is what brought this great program to us. In any case, now is the time to move on because Line6 hasn't proven loyal (IMO). I might be wrong. What I do know is that this strange relationship is causing at least some people to get turned off.

3. Rifflink is a promising concept but even at the level of beta testing it crashes constantly for me so I stopped using it. Since this is beta I can't really complain. However, how long is this going to be in beta and was it really a good idea to release it (albeit free) to the public in such instability? Maybe others haven't had the problems I am having. I consider this program to be in alpha stage. Others here have used it with success and are having fun with. That's great! I love what you guys have done. For me, it crashes over 80% of the time. There's no point. A beta program is functional with bugs. For me, it has been buggy with some functionality.

4. Riffworks needs to work with whatever I/O device someone is using. It seems to be designed to work with TonePort or GuitarPort FIRST and as an option, other I/O devices may also work. This won't do. In theory it doesn't matter if I am using TonePort KB37 or M-audio right? Other recording software, sequencers, or DAWs don't seem to have this limitation. Maybe the source code is too closely tied to Line6 gear. I don't know because I didn't program the code. In any case, the haphazard support is a killer. I hope this is a primary focus for next release.

And this I find MOST important:

5. The ability to rearrange the stacking order of layers (drag and drop), import WAV or MP3 files, and transfer layers over to other riffs or songs (i.e. an export layer option) are not enhancements at this point. They are features that are overdue. Please don't tell me there are limitations to doing this. I get it. Rewrite the code if you have to. Once again, this product and its potential are too damn good to skimp on these things. It simply has to be done. These features are standards in almost any recording software and people will not stop excpecting them. Sure, it's harder for RW2 to implement because of the instant drummer component and the way it handles time and beats. Gotta find a way

You guys created a monster with this program. It wants to be more than it is now. At this point I feel like I am outgrowing RW2 and moving into other solutions. When I look back I realize that this program, RW2 has what the others are missing and misses what the others have. RW2 is intuitive, has the best user interface I've seen yet, is condusive to real time song writing, and works great at keeping you in the flow during the recording process. That is until you try to export a layer, import a wav file or reorder your layers. These aren't wish list items. They absolutely KILL my flow. Most people are not going to move into other programs (with the exception of mastering) to finish a project. If you drive us 90% of the way to our destination and drop us off at the side of the road then you haven't helped much. Take us all the way.

By all means stay where you are and enjoy the level of success you have. That's cool too. You've just raised the price so it's clearly working for you. In any case, I (and certainly others here) feel you can go all the way. So, what are you waiting for? I hope you will.

Thanks for listening...

Peace,
Rich

[pbbobkanobi]

Many good points and I think the Sonoma folks are working like crazy to bring most of these features to life soon....hopefully. RiffWorks kicks butt!

[ShredRex]

Indeed good points.........RW is certainly going to evolve.....and the future versions will be awesome.

[mickeymix]

Well kudos to you "Blue" for speaking your mind .....your saying what a lot of us have wanted to say but haven't.........I applaud you for that ........but you know the Sonoma gang are going to get there soon.......
No program is perfect , but RiffWorks is the easiest and greatest as far as I'm concerned.......... and for the exceptionally reasonable price...... you can't go wrong.....

Just ask yourself ....would you pay the 500-600 american dollars or more to have all those features in RiffWorks?
I know I would!!!!!!
Because it would have to be cost comparable to Sonar 5 or Pro Tools or even Cubase SX...... to have all that ..............
...............no doubt.....
Just know that the Sonoma crew are working on all these things and more........and ......
The futures so "bright" .....I gotta wear shades!!!
.
........Muahahahaha...............Mike/Mickey

[michelle]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. We're listening and working hard

[blue4u]

I always preferred playing hard over working hard! It's only work if you don't enjoy it right? Anyway, thanks for listening and responding Best wishes going forward. We are all wide-eyed and hopeful...

Peace,
Rich

[bluesydude]

Anybody know any venture capitalist they can send to SWW.
Mo' money=mo' programmers=mo' better software.

Seems to me the current SWW crew is doing a great job, but it appears there is just too much to do with the current release and Rifflink. Or else we are all too impatient.

[scott]

Mo' money=mo' programmers=mo' better software.

It doesn't always work that way ... "Windows"???

[gatorjj]

Yes... but it never works the other way round

[pbear5]

i think RiffWorks is in a strange position because what makes it so great in many respects are the things that you can't do with it. it's quick and dirty and you can generate ideas without getting bogged down in the details and editing and mastering.

i haven't had it long but it is going to stay my sketchpad and finished songs will be recorded in Tracktion or on my all-in-one. for me RWS is the equivalent of bashing out ideas in the garage with some buddies--once i arrange and learn a finished tune i will go back to Tracktion and re-record the whole thing just like going from Demo to an actual recording.

[RiffLearner]

i think RiffWorks is in a strange position because what makes it so great in many respects are the things that you can't do with it. it's quick and dirty and you can generate ideas without getting bogged down in the details and editing and mastering.

i haven't had it long but it is going to stay my sketchpad and finished songs will be recorded in Tracktion or on my all-in-one. for me RWS is the equivalent of bashing out ideas in the garage with some buddies--once i arrange and learn a finished tune i will go back to Tracktion and re-record the whole thing just like going from Demo to an actual recording.

I love the same things about Riffworks!

HOWEVER -- I want it all!

I want to be in create mode, then take that, and use Riffworks to finalize my track! Doesn't have to be as full-featured as other super-duper DAW, but a few more of the key features would be perfect!

Riffworks is nearly there, and it RAWKS already!

[pbear5]

one way to look at it is you pile your riffs together and throw them into a song then, instrument by instrument, replace your pieced together performances in the Song Layers so, eventually, the Song Layers are the only active tracks (of course drums are always going to be a problem--fortunately i have an e-drum kit and mad mad skills:) ) and those can be mixed and finalized as needed. maybe they need to add a midi drum track that would import the "drummer's" strokes but would also be editable (the ability to change kits out would be great as well.)

i like the feel and sound of a song that is played through rather than one that is edited together--unless it's done for obvious effect. i think the stage that follows composition is pretty important. once you are learning to play this great creation all the way through you tend to vary the riff dynamics, blend the transitions better and throw in some transition bars--things that are hard to create in the vacuum of an isolated Riff. like i said i haven't had RWS for very long but that's pretty much what i've decided on for work-flow.

[randy]

Thanks for the great suggestions. Let me see what I can add:

1. I am using TonePort KB37. It wouldn't work AT ALL with the Line6 edition of RW2 so, I upgraded to RW2 Standard. It worked. Well, sort of. Guitar Rig and some other VSTs completely crash Riffworks. So, I have to unplug the USB from my I/O device and start over. Several things have crashed this combination. Changing the instant drummer and changing presets in Guitar Rig are 2. It's honestly so unstable I don't even bother using it with Guitar Rig or other VSTs with the exception of Amplitube which, in fairness works great The VST feature was an important one to add. However, in its current implementation it doesn't deliver.

The AMP (VST) feature wasn't really intended to be used with any VSTs other than our pre-approved list of compatible plugins, but we opted to show all installed VSTs as an added bonus because we knew that some would work even if we hadn't been able to test them. It's certainly luck of the draw as to which ones work. If you look through our sales information, it's pretty clear that we don't advertise RiffWorks as having VST plugin capability.

With that said, we are getting to release an update that seems to have fixed the issues with GuitarRig and Amplitube 2 causing crashes. We're currently beta testing this, and we should have it ready for public release soon.

2. The link between SonomaWireworks and Line6 has to be broken. Line6 doesn't support this product anymore. At least that has been my experience. As such this is going to confuse A LOT of people about whose product it is. There are posts on the Line6 forums that speak to this point. I understand that the Line6 name is what brought this great program to us. In any case, now is the time to move on because Line6 hasn't proven loyal (IMO). I might be wrong. What I do know is that this strange relationship is causing at least some people to get turned off.

Line 6 sales still account for a large portion of our revenue and they've been pretty good about referring customers back to us for support issues. I rarely have to send customers back to Line 6 for help, though there's the occasional activation issue that leaves me with no other choice.

I think it's important that we give our customers a choice, and right now they have the choice of buying RiffWorks from us or from Line 6. I'm not really sure what reasons they would have to get turned off by that.

3. Rifflink is a promising concept but even at the level of beta testing it crashes constantly for me so I stopped using it. Since this is beta I can't really complain. However, how long is this going to be in beta and was it really a good idea to release it (albeit free) to the public in such instability? Maybe others haven't had the problems I am having. I consider this program to be in alpha stage. Others here have used it with success and are having fun with. That's great! I love what you guys have done. For me, it crashes over 80% of the time. There's no point. A beta program is functional with bugs. For me, it has been buggy with some functionality.

The RiffWorks update that we're in the middle of testing covers a lot of RiffLink problems. Having RiffLink stay in beta for this long has helped us to flush out most, if not all the problems and we'll have an update available soon.

4. Riffworks needs to work with whatever I/O device someone is using. It seems to be designed to work with TonePort or GuitarPort FIRST and as an option, other I/O devices may also work. This won't do. In theory it doesn't matter if I am using TonePort KB37 or M-audio right? Other recording software, sequencers, or DAWs don't seem to have this limitation. Maybe the source code is too closely tied to Line6 gear. I don't know because I didn't program the code. In any case, the haphazard support is a killer. I hope this is a primary focus for next release.

RiffWorks is compatible with nearly every ASIO audio interface device we've been able to test with and it doesn't lean one way or another in terms of being more compatible with Line 6 vs. other manufacturers' hardware. Can you give me some specific examples of where this has been an issue?

I have a about ten devices here that I use for testing and recording, half of which are made by Line 6. Not that I have anything against Line 6 hardware, but I tend to primarily record via the PreSonus Firebox.

And this I find MOST important:

5. The ability to rearrange the stacking order of layers (drag and drop), import WAV or MP3 files, and transfer layers over to other riffs or songs (i.e. an export layer option) are not enhancements at this point. They are features that are overdue. Please don't tell me there are limitations to doing this. I get it. Rewrite the code if you have to. Once again, this product and its potential are too damn good to skimp on these things. It simply has to be done. These features are standards in almost any recording software and people will not stop excpecting them. Sure, it's harder for RW2 to implement because of the instant drummer component and the way it handles time and beats. Gotta find a way

We agree that all of those features are needed, and they will be implemented in a future release of RiffWorks. However, they will not be part of RiffWorks Standard V2.

You guys created a monster with this program. It wants to be more than it is now. At this point I feel like I am outgrowing RW2 and moving into other solutions. When I look back I realize that this program, RW2 has what the others are missing and misses what the others have. RW2 is intuitive, has the best user interface I've seen yet, is condusive to real time song writing, and works great at keeping you in the flow during the recording process. That is until you try to export a layer, import a wav file or reorder your layers. These aren't wish list items. They absolutely KILL my flow. Most people are not going to move into other programs (with the exception of mastering) to finish a project. If you drive us 90% of the way to our destination and drop us off at the side of the road then you haven't helped much. Take us all the way.

We hear you, I promise! I think we're all on the same wave length.

By all means stay where you are and enjoy the level of success you have. That's cool too. You've just raised the price so it's clearly working for you. In any case, I (and certainly others here) feel you can go all the way. So, what are you waiting for? I hope you will.

We really appreciate your feedback, suggestions and passion towards RiffWorks. These changes and upgrades aren't trivial by any stretch of the imagination and we've been extremely busy with a number of other projects since releasing RiffWorks Standard/L6EV2, etc. We keep our development priorities and schedule private, so I can't get into those specifics. It's going to be quite a while though before RiffWorks V3, or whatever it will be called, will be ready/available.

Perhaps Dug and Dan will chime in when they get back from NAMM.

Thanks again,

[blue4u]

Thanks Randy. You guys are a model for what service is about. I hope that as you grow as a company you'll keep this kind of responsiveness going with us. It makes EVERY difference.

You've pretty much responded in a satisfactory way to each of my observations. Thanks for that! This was a little bit of a rant from two basic frustrations, the trouble I've had with TonePort KB37 and the want for this program to be my primary recording tool. As to question/point #4-I've only used GuitarPort and TonePort KB37. I may have spoke a bit out of turn referring to other devices. There I go assuming again! Now I understand. Please look into and test with the KB37 a bit more. It's a bit flakey even with the Standard version. I have to uplug my usb a lot in order to get the asio to see my device again. Strange happenings there.

I can be patient. I'm excited to see what you guys will offer. Don't keep us waiting too long. Nothing wrong with a 2.5 release to include a few smaller things Anyway, thanks for hearing me out and thanks for a great product!

Regards,
Rich

[pooterpatty]

First, RiffWorks is the cat's nuts. I've never used a recording app that was easier, more fun, that allowed my creative juices to flow (get a towel!), and didn't bog me down with a bunch of crap that I don't need or use.

InstantDrummer, I believe, is the coolest thing invented since the wah pedal, and I love being able to put together drum tracks on my computer that don't SOUND like they came from a drum machine.

All that being said, I would like to see the ability to import WAV files at the very least. MP3 functionality would be nice, but you can always convert an MP3 to a WAV using other software freely available on the Web. I also like the idea of changing layer order, but that's just because I'm anal and like things to be displayed from the ground of the song up.

I've also noticed that sometimes when I export a song and don't Riffcast it, some of the layers I recorded will be mysteriously absent. I can go back in and re-export (without changing anything) and the missing riffs will once again be there. Does anyone else have this problem?

Again, kudos to SWW for creating and supporting an outstanding product. RiffWorks is worth twice what you charge for it, but I have to say if it was more expensive, I probably wouldn't have bought it, not knowing anything about it. However, I think you've made your money back from me on all the InstantDrummer purchases (keep em coming and I'll keep on buying).