Is there a guide or "best practice" for how to build a song

[kewlpack]

Alrighty! I've gotten my Amplitube 2 rig up and running. I have laid down some tracks/layers in RW2 and started trying to build some simple demo-style songs. I am kind of at a loss as to what the best way to manage the tracks and riffs would be.

Is there a guide that goes into the "best practice" for building complete songs in RW2?

I am wondering how to use the Instant Drummer to have it throw in an Intro then go into the Verse, and then for the bridge, etc... how do you get all of that variation into a layer or track?

Is there a way to record multiple "riffs" one after the other, in sequence, so I don't have to stop and start various sections?

Is there a best practice for punching in lead lines (as tracks), or tracking some improv over a full blown song as a whole??

Help - I'm drowning from my lack of knowledge... can't breathe!

[gatorjj]

That's a tough one as we each have our own ways of working and one man's workflow may be another's roadblock.

You probably want to start with multiple riffs that match the parts of the song, i.e. a short intro riff, perhaps an 8 bar verse riff, etc. Apply different drums to each riff (intro, verse, chorus, break etc.)

One way to record multiple riffs at once is to have it loop and just keep playing over several layers. Then duplicate the riff once for each layer, and delete all but the one layer you want for each riff. Put them up in the songbar in order and viola you have a song.

Finally, there's the SongLayers, which ride over the entire song as one long overlayed 24-track. Best to use this after you have the song structure nailed down, as moving a riff in the songbar will not change what's recorded in the Songlayer.

I hope that helps you get started, now start breathing and start playing!

J.J.

[kewlpack]

Gotcha. I did read your mixing overview as well (thanks for that).

I might just mix down the basic song structure and then lay down lead segments via Guitar Tracks Pro 3. Although I'd like to stay in one app if I can.

Or maybe I could bounce the song riffs as a whole down to a new, all-in-one riff (does that also mix down the drums so they are embedded?). Then put that new riff into a new project and work the lead lines over that... hmmm. Would that work?

Your help and suggestions are much appreciated!

[pooterpatty]

You can lay down linear lead lines right in Riffworks. Just make sure you have all the riffs in the order you want in the Song Timeline, then click the little doohickey next to your riff list that says SONGLAYERS. Hit Record and you can play over the song as a whole, instead of just riff by riff.

[kewlpack]

I'll try that! Thanks Pooter!

[ThrobbyRobby]

First, record each part of the song separately, intro, verse, chorus etc. just pick the drum session you like for now, you can change it at any time later, its not recorded to the riff, only records to a mixdown. Set the length of each section of the song and timing when you start of recording it. Just the basic layers, bass, rhythm, etc. you may have 3 or 4 verses and use the chorus more than once, but you only have to record it one time. Drag the sections of your song to the song bar and arrange away. When you have the structure down, you can now add variations to the parts by duplicating the layer and making small changes to it. Then to add parts into the whole arrangement, record on the song layer. Vocals, leads etc. Just remember that once you have recorded on the song layer, changing the riffs around can mess things up. Chunks of the song layer don't move with Riffs. Good Luck!

[michelle]

Here's some other good reading in case you haven't read them yet:

RiffWorks Guide on How to Create a Song:
http://www.sonomawireworks.com/guide/index.php/Create_a_Song

RiffWorks User Manual in pdf format:
http://www.sonomawireworks.com/RiffWorksUserManual.pdf

Cheers,
Michelle

[kewlpack]

Great - thanks for the help gang. I have skimmed the user manual once - but only summarily. I'm definitely a RTM person (makes my wife crazy).

Thanks!

[jamienelson]

I like to pretty much go the way Robby does, except I don’t like using the song layers in case I want to change the arrangement later. I record my vocals right to the Riffs. For me labeling the riffs Intro, Verse, Chorus, FillA, ext… is essential, especially if you are collabing with someone. Also I use the little note area to make notes of what guitar settings and such that I had, just in case I need to come back and match that tone again.

[blue4u]

Wow! Look at you guys and how helpful you are! I love this forum. Here's some tips I use to get a song started...

First, it's all about inspiration for me. I have to do whatever it takes to capture my own interest (a strange circumstance!) and then, I have to find a way to STAY interested in the song as I am creating it. I have shortened MANY songs because even though the riff might be great (on its own) it sounds boring within the context of the song so, I cut it no questions asked. You'll know when this is the case. You are either pumped and jacked about what you just laid down or bored with it. No sense tinkering. Just move on! If I can't find something to inspire me to play more riffs then it just ends up being uninteresting, sonic drivel and I best quit for now and come back later. Most often I will save what I have thus far just in case I am able to recapture the original vibe another time. In many cases I may only get down song fragments for the whole time I spend and that's why I have HUNDREDS of unfishined songs

A few ways I try to kick start the song creating process are:

1. Whatever your process is, do it backwards. So, for instance if you usually start with a guitar riff (as I do) and then add a drummer and finally, a bass line try reversing this process. Play a bass line on your guitar or preferably, a bass guitar and try not to lock in a bar length or time sig yet. The song layer is excellent for this because you can free form jam without the loop restrictions of riff length and tempo. Just get a tasty bottom end groove happening. Then sample some drummers and see which ones might fit. Try some odd time signatures. Let it surprise you. Most of the magic is in the "happy accidents" that happen from experimenting (I believe). Now you can create a riff and know how many bars and what time sig to place it in. Set up your drummer and THEN, write your killer guitar hook. Your results might be quite different this way!

2. Don't jam with the drummer AT ALL! I set up the metronome to tambourine just to keep time and I come up with the riff by itself. This way, the drummer doesn't dictate the riff structure and I can influence the song by trying different drummers later. The reverse of this is equally effective. Select a drummer you like first and then write a bass or guitar line that follows the drummer. The point is to keep mixing it up until you find something new and interesting. The challenge for me is to try to get myself to play something I would never play on my own just noodling on the guitar.

3. Try odd riff lengths like 5, 7 or 9 bars. This forces the loop to repeat in a strange place and it changes up your playing strategy.

4. Try a 4/4 or 6/8 drummer in the wrong time signature like 3/4 or 5/4. You can get some fun things happening this way!

5. Play a lead line or sing a vocal melody by itself. Then bring in the drummer, bass and guitars in that order. Again, the results can be dramatically different this way.

6. Let the bass be the main focus of the song and build all of the other parts around it. Check out ThrobbyRobby's song War 2 for an EXCELLENT example of this! You can listen here: http://www.sonomawireworks.com/riffcaster/post.php?/6090

7. Try keys, synths, pads, REX2 loops, etc. One thing I don't hear enough of here are keyboards! I guess cuz we are all guitarists! Some nice piano or orchestral songs would do nicely. You can use the same techniques as above and make these the focal point and let the guitar take a back seat.

8. Experiment with a lot of layers. I like to record as many layers as I can to find that threshold where it's about to become mush. You'll know when you hit it cuz you'll be stuck in the mud. You can use panning, delay and reverb to move things around in 3d space (left to right and front to back). I have to change my playing to do this though so it can challenging for sure. The more layers I am creating the simpler the parts need to be so they don't step on each other.

Finally, I listen to a lot of people's songs and I KNOW they can do much better if they just actually LISTENED to what they are doing. It's not that they aren't capable. I think many of us (me included) just get stuck in our head and use logic to justify a song part or, we keep it there because it sounds impressive even though it doesn't fit or, we let the song drag on and on because we are trying to write some big epic. It's really hard to listen to a tune beyond 5 minutes. 3 to 5 minutes is ideal. Some songs are the exception (think Led Zeppelin and Dream Theater here) but it's pretty easy to tell when a song is just dragging. Just because it was fun for you or I to play it (think jam session) doesn't mean it's going to be interesting for your listeners. I have had to eat this humble pie for years! That's why I often prefer to jam with musicians alone without an audience. On stage I can tell it's just boring the audience to tears after the first few minutes. I can see it on their face. Again, there are exceptions here too. Phish is a great jam band and many others before them. By now you get my long-winded point in any case. Make the music you would love to hear! Dylan said the entire reason he became a song writer was because no one out there was making the music he wanted to listen to. That has always stuck with me.

Listen to your song and ask yourself...would I buy this? If not, then keep workin' on it. FWIW I have yet to write a song that I would buy if that tells you anything.

Log on to RiffLink (if you haven't yet?) and come join us. We write really long 7 and 8 minute epic jams just because we can! LOL It's fun and sometimes we even make a decent song out of it. Hope to see ya there...

Have fun!
Rich

[jamienelson]

Good points Rich, also I most people are pretty impatient; you have 45 – 60 seconds to get to your hook. Most of the tips I’ve read from pros say to keep the intros real short, get your first verse in, and get to the chorus before you hit 60 seconds. Usually a listener is going to judge the song and either move on or keep listening based on this.

[epauley]

Kewlpack, Here's a thread link to a discussion a couple of months back with more "sound" advice:

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3027

[blue4u]

aha! "sound" advice has a nice double meaning...are you saying our advise is not "sound"? lol

[blue4u]

One more thing which, Gator also mentions in his Mixing tutorial...

Try to finish the song (at least the main riff parts) in one take or session. Otherwise, all of the guitar and bass parts end up sounding slightly different. Differences in string wear, tuning, and mojo in the air all add up! The song will sound a lot more cohesive (fluid) if you can finish it all in one shot!

Rich

[blue4u]

Now I have a question....

For all you EQ masters out there, how can I dial in the bass guitar with the bass kick drum so that they sound like they are linked (or locked) together? I've heard tracks where it sounds like the kick drum is actually playing the bass guitar. It gives the track a real tight, solid feel. I love it! Any tips for doing this??

Thanks for this post!
Rich