Mix down to Wav - Volume to low

[eobreit]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to this forum and I have a question with regards to the mix down of Riffworks. I noticed that the volume of a wav file mixed down within Riffworks is much lower as the original played through Riffworks. There must be something wrong.
I tried the same through intelliRiffer and thats much better. Has anybody made the same experience ?

Thanks for any feedback or help.
Ebi (from Germany)

[scott]

Hi Ebi! Guten tag and a big welcome to the RiffWorks forum.

When you're mixing to .wav, where are the needles reaching on the master vu meters? You should be aiming to have them close to '3'. Use the master gain to get the best signal you can. Don't worry too much about peaking here and there as RW has an auto-limiter built in.

If you're still having low outputs you can import your .wav file in to an audio converter like 'Audacity' (free download) and amplify the signal (or specific parts, like the bass).

Good luck!
Oh, and before one of my esteemed colleagues hits you with it (and especially with Germany's beer heritage), the new guy has to buy everyone on the forum a beer!

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... beer!!

[eobreit]

Hi Scott,

Thanks so much for your warm welcome. I will upload the beer to the Sonoma server. Just kidding. You may not belief, but I havn't drink any beer the last 20 years.

I gave it a try to get the vu close to 3, but it didn't change anything. I'm still wondering, that a freeware application like intelliRiffer has a better converter as
Riffworks. The output from the Riffworks mix has about half the volume as played through Riffworks itself. Maybe someone from the support should have a look here.

BTW.: I visited your Webpage, it's great. Excellent work, like your music.

cio,
Ebi

[scott]

If you post your song to the RiffCaster page and log a support call, Randy or Hayden will be able to investigate further.

[atalwar]

I'm still wondering, that a freeware application like intelliRiffer has a better converter as
Riffworks.

intelliriffer does not have much of a converter, it just takes the raw audio file (rw generated) and adds a wav header using sox. i don't think any bit/audio manipulation occurs in converting raw pcm to a wav pcm.

It migtht be that limiter is acting on audio some way on direct export or something is reducing your amplitudes

you should send the song to RW team as posted earlier as it can only be checked after specturm analasys whats goin' on.


oh one more imp thing, what is your playback device in both scenarios ?

It just might be that rw is playing via your pod at higher level whereas the exported wave file is playing from soundcard directsound etc and the mixer level of sound card is low. Just a thought as i have been victim of this incident in my early days.

[bjabus]

I am also experiencing the low volume issue when mixing down to the wav file. I was
trying to record the riffs hot like I do using Pro Tools, but it seems to clip quite badly so when I record the individual riffs I usually go 0db or less and on the main output gain i usually set it for about -3db in order to reduce the clipping. maybe my podxt live is sending it into the software too hot. I have it set up for studio recording output at full volume. First I tried to mix to a wav file and got low volume. Then I tried the mix to riff option and then boosted the gain on the main output and then mixed to wav but still get low volume. Do any of the Riffworks guru's have any mix tips for us newbs? Thanks.

[gatorjj]

I think RiffWorks is designed to keep the user out of trouble by forcing some headroom to occur. The Limiter is not really a 'brickwall' type like you might see elsewhere, it seems to do some soft limiting and intelligent reduction to keep the mix from smashing to bits. It's still peaking close to 0db but not giving that smashed average volume a brickwall limiter would give.

The best way to get more is to export the mix as a WAV and run it through another program (Audacity, Audition, Reaper, ProTools, Cubase etc.) and use it's limiter. It's another step but really doesn't take much time. If you do this I'd recommend not letting RiffWorks do any limiting (keep it low enough that the "limit" light doesn't go on).

Alternatively you can crank up the Master Gain to +18 and let the RiffWorks limiter work the whole time. The peaks will mostly be in the -3db range though there will be some higher. This sounds better to me than letting it bounce on and off and you'll get more average volume out of it, but I think you'll get better results just finalizing outside the program.

[bjabus]

Thanks gator. Terrific information. I think I will probably download Audacity and give that a try. Hope it isn't too time consuming. That's the beauty of Riffworks, it's
fast... Maybe there could be a mixdown application to help boost the signal safely in
the next Riffworks release

[randy]

I don't have this problem. What are you using to listen to your mixed down wave? Winamp? Windows Media Player? Could it be that the output volume is turned down on that device?

I've used Audacity to compress/normalize my songs, but I only do that once in a while.

Why not post your song to RiffCaster and then we can download the .ogg file (which should have the same volume as the mixed wave). I'd like to have a listen.

[bjabus]

Thanks Randy. I posted the song "Road To Emmaus" in Riffcaster. Any tips or comments on the mix are appreciated as well. This is the 1st song I have posted and
have very little experience with mixing and mastering music. I have used Pro Tools but mostly for pre-recorded puppet shows and spoken word presentations.