Sonoma Wire Works - Support Forums

by **Timejunkie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:22 pm

Hi folks,

I am having major (and I do mean major) problems with Riffworks....

Sorry if some of these have been addressed elsewhere in the forum, I don't have the time to search for the answers... if there are any.

So...I'm in the middle of a very creative session with an artist (thank god he is patient) and the audio suddenly starts popping, crackling and ultimately feezing my system completely.

Also, when using the song layer often playback is not sync'd to the rest of the song.

Yes...I thought maybe it was just my computer, so I transferrred the riffworks file to the artists' system and had the same problems... and he has a brand spankin' new system with 2 gig of memory!!!

I've tried all of the usual optimizations for audio tweaks... with no substantial performance improvment.

It seems anything over 7 - 10 layers per riff craps it out. Maybe it is overloading memory when adding effects, Eq etc.. to layers. If that is the case why have'em??

2 gig of memory should be sufficent to handle what I am doing with the program.

Don't get me wrong I love using riffworks but can't seem to complete a song without major issues.

Is anyone else having these issues under similar circumstances?

Any thoughts....???

Cheers,
Chip

by **scott** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:57 pm

Sounds like the problems have affected the file itself Chip. It also sounds memory related but might not be just down to amounts of RAM. It could be how the data stream is being passed through your system. Does your artist have RWS installed on his system or are you only transferring the file for playback?
For what it's worth, I have permanent issues with the songlayer being out of sync. if you try to drop in new layers or play them back without starting from the beginning. The only way I can sort it is to stop the song using the buttons on both Song panel and Riff Recorder panel. That seems to reset everything.
What can of ASIO device are you using BTW?

I checked the website of a well known soundcard producer who have had a lot of popping and crackling issues and they recommend a BIOS update. I don't know if it will work for you or not.

Hope you can get things fixed and sorry I can't be of any real help!

by **Timejunkie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:37 pm

scott wrote:Sounds like the problems have affected the file itself Chip. It also sounds memory related but might not be just down to amounts of RAM. It could be how the data stream is being passed through your system. Does your artist have RWS installed on his system or are you only transferring the file for playback?
For what it's worth, I have permanent issues with the songlayer being out of sync. if you try to drop in new layers or play them back without starting from the beginning. The only way I can sort it is to stop the song using the buttons on both Song panel and Riff Recorder panel. That seems to reset everything.
What can of ASIO device are you using BTW?

I checked the website of a well known soundcard producer who have had a lot of popping and crackling issues and they recommend a BIOS update. I don't know if it will work for you or not.

Hope you can get things fixed and sorry I can't be of any real help!

Hi Scott,

You are always a great help my friend.

Yes the artist has RW Standard on his system. He didn't have the drummer I was using so the track wasn't even playing drums as a background.

BIOS may be the problem but doesn't explain why it boggs down on a brand new system which I assume would have the latest and greatest etc...I know Pro Tools advises a BIOS tweak...may I could try that.

Yes I did notice setting everything back to the beginning helped the out of sync issue but this needs to be fixed a.s.a.p. in new versions. Again no point in having a song layer if it doesn't work.

You are correct... it's almost as though the file becomes corrupt. I noticed this wehn recording my record. Sometimes only individual riffs would suddenly stutter and freeze and other play fine (if it makes it that far).

It's very very frustrating...as I said (and you well know) I love riffworks and I am a BIG endorser of the software, however it's becoming unusable for anything other than basic song writing.

I saw it as a user friendly alternative to Pro Tools but performance and stability is becoming very suspect.

Maybe I am expecting too much from the software as I use it for very layer intensive songs with up to 8 - 10 layers of vocals on top of the instrumentation etc....

For what it's worth I'd like to see more attention to these types of issues rather than the development of riff-linking etc...lets' get it working seemlessly before adding bells and whistles.

Cheers,
Chip

by **ShredRex** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:42 pm

In the past any popping or crackling artifacts I have run into were due to audio drivers, or mobo chipsets. Another big thing in association to the amount of ram in play is the amount used by other applications. I would be closing any unnecessary proggys like spyware/antivirus especially if they have HIPS protection enabled.

The other thing to consider is the fact that ram comes in various speeds, so the total amount is not the only variable affecting performance. What kind of sound card are talking here? Integrated or a add-on card like a sound blaster?

Have you tried starting another song file and duplicating the problem one? It may be just that song file is not working? Any chance you can email the song file to say Gator and have him open it up and see if the problem exists on his end.....just throwing out ideas here.

by **Timejunkie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:36 pm

Gator e-mailed me and may have the solution.

My hard drive on my laptop is 5400RPM...the added layers and effects may be too much for it.

I know a 7200RPM drive would yield better results.

Can anyone suggest a laptop drive that woul do the job?

by **ShredRex** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:45 pm

I would be looking at an external USB 2.0/firewire drive to store the song files.....and even have RW installed upon to use. Bu that is just me....

Pootertunes · by **pooterpatty** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:57 pm

ShredRex is right, an external drive is the way to go. It's NEVER a good idea to store songs, content, or anything else you create on the same drive that an operating system resides on. If you have an external drive, your songs will be in a safe place even if your computer completely crashes. It's saved my hiney on many occasions.

Plus, if you go external, you don't have to worry about cracking open your laptop to install a new hard drive, which depending on what kinda laptop you have, may void your warranty.

New USB hard drives are getting cheaper every day too. You should be able to get a nice 200-gigger for about a C-note.

by **Muddhole** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:27 pm

I am getting that same issue, but it only seems to happen with one file as I know of. I have two of the exact same song, but one has vocals and the other does not. The one with vocals is studdering with the other having only slight cracking but is barely noticable. I updated audio/chipset/bios drivers but still have the same issues. Before all this I upgraded my memory to 2 GB and at first was very happy with the results until the problem got consistently worst with the above mentioned file. Now I'm at the file freezing and studdering. Also I don't load my songs from the same drive as the OS, but a partitioned drive.

FYI, I did leave RW open all night with that file loaded and in the morning that's when I heard how bad it really was so you/me/us might not want to do that in the future. LOL

by **Muddhole** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:31 pm

Timejunkie wrote:Gator e-mailed me and may have the solution.

My hard drive on my laptop is 5400RPM...the added layers and effects may be too much for it.

I know a 7200RPM drive would yield better results.

Can anyone suggest a laptop drive that woul do the job?

OMG, yeah 5400 are way too slow man! At least get a 7200 or if you can afford it, a 10,000 raptor would be bad ass, but it depends at what bus speed your system runs at to yield optimal results although I'm not sure if they mak'em for laptops.

by **gatorjj** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:12 pm

One other thing that can cause crackling is the buffer size to the interface could be too small (i.e. in the GuitarPort control panel). I think on a GuitarPort it's not a big deal to increase the buffer because of the "DirectTone" concept they use but on other interfaces using Amplitube it will increase the latency. It's something else to try if you are having these type issues.

by **scott** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:13 pm

It almost sounds like some sort of cacheing issue. Something is creating a cumulative block somewhere?
Just thinking out loud.

Pootertunes · by **pooterpatty** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:04 pm

At first I thought it might be a memory issue, but I've only got 1GB here and I rarely experience any crackling in any of the tunes I mix, and I see some people here have 2GB. I do sometimes get it when I play back a song after I've had RW open for an hour or so (and it's eaten up a good bit of RAM), but you have to expect hiccups when you're low on RAM.

There's one other thing that happens to me occasionally and I was wondering if anyone else experiences this problem too. Let's say I record a song with 8-10 riffs, with 6 or 7 Layers in each riff (a conservative estimate for me). Sometimes (but not always) when I play back the song, I won't hear the Layers I recorded in the first or send riffs. I'll hear any Instant Drummers I used, but the Layers will be mysteriously absent. Playing the same riff a second time always fixes the problem. It also happens occasionally when I mix a song to wav or ogg, the first or second riffs will have none of the Layers I recorded. Again, all I have to do is re-mix and the Layers are there again. It's not a huge deal, I was just wondering if this happens to anyone else too.

by **Wedgebill** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:51 am

Exactly the same on my pc with 1gb in UK Pooter, pc here has 2gb and it doesn't do the crackly thing having left the program on at all but it does exactly the same drum with missing layer thing.

by **Timejunkie** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:35 am

When my system freezes the instant drummer continues to play. Once the song reaches the end the unfreezes.

I may have been a bit harsh insinuating it was a software issue (sorry)...but for any semi-pro or pro recording the minimum system requirements need to be substantially increased.

The external drive may be a good alternative but I would still be utilizing my 1 gig of memory and my processor... so wouldn't I more than likely run into the same issues??

On the other hand can anyone recommend a PC that will do the job that won't break the bank?

Generally I am running up to 12 to 14 layers per riff...if not more....with effects on some of the layers.

Thank you so much for the help folks...as always you guys are awesome!!!

Cheers,
Chip

by **ShredRex** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:13 am

Bottom line is, you need something that has a dual core CPU (2.4GHz or higher), no less than 2 GB of ram, and a 7200 RPM hard drive. In my mind integrated audio is never good enough either, a sound blaster is nice addition, and not expensive to include in the equation regardless of which card you decide to go with. That should solve your problems.....aside from latency settings as Gator outlined.....cause even some of the better systems are still prone to those issues. No system runs everything right?

You can get a good base system at Staples for anywhere between $459-$699, and add ram or a sound card as required. I just recently purchased a Dell XPS 420 that I beefed up a bit for all the reasons I stated above. But the Staples route is probably the cheaper route....

Cheap option #1 : http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=83%2C84,402&webid=716702&affixedcode=WW

Option #2: http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=83%2C84,402&webid=716741&affixedcode=WW

Option #3: http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=83%2C84,402&webid=716711&affixedcode=WW

Having said that I was at Staples the other day and they had nothing in stock. There is also Tiger Direct: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/indexca.asp?SRCCODE=CANWGOOCABRA&CMP=KNC-CANGOO

But I say check out Dell and build the system you want.....if you too cheap now you will be upgrading again soon!

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