Amp direct into TP/RW

RiffWorks Recording Software (Mac/Win)

Moderators: gatorjj, JouniL, scott, bluesydude, mickeymix, Wedgebill

Postby ShredRex » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:39 am

Quick question for all your riff-maniacs in here....cause I know you know more than I do when it comes to this sort of stuff....I just play guitar u know :) Out of curiosity......which method of getting direct guitar signal into the TP and RW works best for you?

Do you run it in with no amp or cab, or via a pre-amp model?

I find the signal is inevitibly muddy when running direct, regardless of what amp I have tried. I am trying to determine the best way to pre EQ and roll of some of the mud prior to tracking in an attempt to minimize the tweaking required as I mix.

Like Gator says, get it good before the tracking/mix......

I am going to mess with this more, but just wanted some input.
ShredRex
Member
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:57 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby gatorjj » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:26 pm

use a mic ;)
gatorjj
Member
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:34 pm
Location: Apex NC USA

Postby blue4u » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:41 pm

I had this problem too. The issue for me had more to do with the quality of the sound card I was using. I recently upgraded to a RME FireFace 800 (http://www.rme-audio.com/english/firewire/ff800.htm) and now, my direct signal is clearer and punchier :D

A few things are at play here that you may want to look into. First, the analog to digital conversion taking place in your sound card. It colors the tone quite a bit more than people may realize! Second, the way the direct signal from the guitar is brought up to line level. Because the signal from the guitar is VERY weak it has to be amplified to reach an appropriate level for recording. This amplification takes place either in a D.I. box or within the audio interface itself. The quality of amplification and process it uses changes the tone considerably.

Turn off all of the amp modeling at your input and record your direct signal only to RiffWorks. You should hear an acceptable sound with clarity and good attack. If it sounds muffled, less defined or unclear to you then it may be time to upgrade. It really depends on what you can live with but if the signal going IN to the amp modeling is not clear and defined then the amp models will only accentuate the problem and make it worse. It's not really something you will be able to EQ away.

I think what may be happening (cuz it happened to me!) is that you are getting pickier about the quality of your tone so you are trying to capture a better signal. The TonePort has decent converters and inputs but nothing spectacular. I certainly wasn't satisfied. What ruined me was actually hearing what a clean guitar signal COULD sound like with higher quality components.

Another solution you can try is to buy an active D.I. box that is higher quality like the Radial J48 (http://www.radialeng.com/di-j48-features.htm). This will give your guitar signal a clean boost and bring it up to line level before you send it to TonePort. It can have a HUGE effect on tone. IF you go this route just make SURE you output from the D.I. box into the "Line Input" on your TonePort. It would defeat the purpose if you go out from something like the J48 and then right back into the high impedance guitar input where the sound is re-colored! At this point, I might be confusing you?

It all comes down to money and how much you want to spend to get closer to that "perfect" tone. But the differences are insubstantial to many who would never know or care. You are entering some dangerous territory on this one :O

Rich
Last edited by blue4u on Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
blue4u
Member
 
Posts: 1520
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:40 pm
Location: Saint Paul, MN

Postby Wedgebill » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:46 pm

Hey Shred, when I'm using my Toneport UX2 to record guitar I sometimes click the tuner button on Gearbox and bypass everything :)
No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill/419225520583?v=app_2405167945
Wedgebill
Member
 
Posts: 4129
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Florida, U.S of A

Postby ShredRex » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:20 pm

Thanks Gator, do you work on commission? :)

Hey blue, thanks for the suggestions and advice. I do have my sound card bypassed............meaning the TP is my main audio device. My sound card is definitely not the issue, and it is a very expensive Creative SB card.........so I can rule that out. What I need to get is a true bypass........maybe Bill is onto something.........I will have to try that. I like the DI box idea.....but I am one cheap a$$ fella so if I can tweak it somehow without spending money I am all over that.........no big surprise right?

I am gonna keep messing........the sound I get in the phones is fine, just need to dial it in in GB somehow.......I may just run without amp/cab and simply turn on the EQ to roll of the nasty frequencies.

Or maybe I am going about this all wrong.........maybe I should take the TP out of the equation, and try running my out form the head direct to my SB card and see if it will works using ASIO4ALL...cause the Creative ASIO drivers are crap. Hmmmmmm
ShredRex
Member
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:57 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby Charvelguy » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:30 pm

hmm, are you using Speaker emulation prior to your connection to the sound card?

This actually brings up a few different routes for me to try with my amps.
What I'm thinking of trying is the signal chain as follows:

chosen amp head speaker out--->Marhsall SE100 input--->
Marshall SE RCA out--->Toneport UX2 RCA in---->GB---RW

I'm wondering if you ar running your direct signal from the amp via 1/4" cable or RCA?

Maybe run it into a mixer, which could be analog or digital to your soundcard.
Or another route digital would be ADAP interface and then lightpipe to your soundcard bypassing GB.
Charvelguy
Member
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:37 am
Location: Mpls, MN

Postby ShredRex » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:46 pm

The phones/direct out is emulated on the MG amp head. The thing I changed was to plug into the PAD input on the TP compared to the NORM ins input and it seems to be much better. I can get a much cleaner tone now, as the distortion I was getting or mud was more than likely due to the high output going into the TP.

I think I just may have it now.......even the effects come across on recording as i hear from my cab. What a nice feeling to hear my tone I get from the amp in my recordings.....now if I just had more time to get my RR tune done I would be all set!
ShredRex
Member
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:57 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby GuitarSlinger » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:51 am

NO NO NO! I had the MG 4x12! Headphone out goes into the LINE IN on the back of the TP. The amp is mono, but you can apply stereo effects in Gearbox. No Amp or Vintage Preamp is my favorite. God I used to love this setup.
GuitarSlinger
Member
 
Posts: 2439
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Sacramento CA

Postby GuitarSlinger » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:54 am

And yes the speaker emulation on the MG has some balls. It's not bad.
GuitarSlinger
Member
 
Posts: 2439
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Sacramento CA

Postby ShredRex » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:13 am

I had the amp plugged into the line in on the TP but got no signal....what am I doing wrong?

I still do apply some effects but using RW on the tracked parts......gearbox is not open when I am recording direct at all.

BTW I am loving this MG head/cab combo....the FDD is really cool and the amp has some serious balls and tone. Did you get rid of yours?
Last edited by ShredRex on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
ShredRex
Member
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:57 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby GuitarSlinger » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:19 am

In Gearbox select the input that says Line 1 for left or Line 2 for the right. I had it on a trade for a couple of months.
GuitarSlinger
Member
 
Posts: 2439
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Sacramento CA

Postby GuitarSlinger » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:25 am

Ok if you want to do it with Gearbox closed, you can configure which input is default and active when Gearbox is not running. All programs/Line6/Tools/Line6 Audio Midi Devices. Inputs and Recording tab select the one you want as the default.
GuitarSlinger
Member
 
Posts: 2439
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Sacramento CA

Postby ShredRex » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:09 am

Ah GS can't thank you enough.......I knew it was going to be something simple........I feel a little stupid now tho. It sounds great via the inputs as you suggested, I just had to select the correct input.

Here is hoping I can remember to do the same when I want to record bass.......lol

Thanks again man!
ShredRex
Member
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:57 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby Wedgebill » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:29 am

Jason is definitely the man Shred, but don't make the mistake of showing him a picture of you as he'll turn you into a gnome sitting on the bog talking bollocks :lol:


I dread to think what he'd do if you upset him :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)
No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill/419225520583?v=app_2405167945
Wedgebill
Member
 
Posts: 4129
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Florida, U.S of A

Postby gatorjj » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:52 pm

ShredRex would be a rather large gnome! :o
gatorjj
Member
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:34 pm
Location: Apex NC USA

Next

Return to RiffWorks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron