Adding instruments with midi keyboard with Reason...a proble

[epauley]

When using a midi keyboard with Reason 4 (via a USB connection) to add instruments to a tune in RiffWorks, I notice the keyboard tracks record all previously recorded tracks and instant drummer. Is there a way to record a clean midi keyboard track over other tracks?

[atalwar]

We do need something like bounce to LAYER for rewire and rex loops. so that anything via rewire or rex loops can be brought intrinsically into a RIFF without affecting other existing layers(mixdown).

That way the Rewire/Rex Device can be freed and internal RW FX can be applied to those layers for streamlined workflow (so that tails of fx don't get cut of when moving between riffs).

I hope as more users vote /consider this option SW guys may look into that for future.

The only way i have been able to manage to record clean layers properly is via the analog route (a cable from another sound card (a very old and cheap creative sb live value with KX drivers) audio out into pod input). however, since pod is the only analog input interface i have, i could only get those in Mono.

[epauley]

Thanks atalwar...at least, it doesn't look like I've overlooked anything.

I have a PODxt and could route the Keyboards via midi cables instead of directly through the Axiom's USB cables. Also, I am wondering if that would reduce latency?

[atalwar]

Epauley,
i am not sure about axiom devices/interfaces and if they have asio etc or what have you.

but here is a routing i know would definitely work. (assuming you are using some software synth or sampler on pc as sound engine via midi).

Set up your RW input to be the other low latency(asio) audio device that you have (sound card/usb mixer/axiom).

Open the Your Sampler/Reason or Daw,and set it to use podxt as the asio device.

Connect the analog Outs (Recommened) or Headphone out from pod unit to input of whatever hardware device you set up with RW.

Now RW should be able record whatever you play live in your other application/reason as a new layer.

Also the midi cables don't carry any audio information but just the midi parameters/instructions like note on/Off,CC/NRPN ... to your sampler/synth. The soft synth/Reason/sampler translates MIDI instructions and generates the sound accordingly. So if your axion device is just a USB midi interface/cable then this won't work as for the above you need some analog asio interface that can serve as a bridge between two applications.

Also podxt has a very limited & specific midi implementation and the note on/off messages are not passed through it.

I hope i didn't create any confusion as these days i seem to mastering that art form.

[epauley]

My responses are embeded in bold

Epauley,
i am not sure about axiom devices/interfaces and if they have asio etc or what have you.

Yes, M-Audio Axiom have ASIO

but here is a routing i know would definitely work. (assuming you are using some software synth or sampler on pc as sound engine via midi).

Reason 4

Set up your RW input to be the other low latency(asio) audio device that you have (sound card/usb mixer/axiom).

I alway have it in the lowest ASIO setting.

Open the Your Sampler/Reason or Daw,and set it to use podxt as the asio device.

Connect the analog Outs (Recommened) or Headphone out from pod unit to input of whatever hardware device you set up with RW.

The M-Aduio Axiom has only midi (in and out) and USB. I assumed the midi in and outs would allow connection through the PODxt.

Now RW should be able record whatever you play live in your other application/reason as a new layer.

As noted in my original message, I am able to record in RWS using the Keyboard and Reason via the keyboard's USB cable directly connected to the computer but unfortunately….as you noted above ….previously recorded tracks and instant drummers are also recorded in the keyboard track.

Also the midi cables don't carry any audio information but just the midi parameters/instructions like note on/Off,CC/NRPN ... to your sampler/synth. The soft synth/Reason/sampler translates MIDI instructions and generates the sound accordingly. So if your axion device is just a USB midi interface/cable then this won't work as for the above you need some analog asio interface that can serve as a bridge between two applications.

So, am I out of luck since the Axioum has only has only midi (in and out) and USB.

Also podxt has a very limited & specific midi implementation and the note on/off messages are not passed through it.

I hope i didn't create any confusion as these days i seem to mastering that art form.

That’s okay. I am new at midi technology and confusion can be expected. lol

[atalwar]

epauley,
How are you currently Recording your keyboard tracks? via rewire or directly (and what is the input source to RW and output from RW if directly?

as it seems whatever is in other RW layers is being routed back into input along with your keyboard signal and thus recording.

if your audio interface supports more than 2 asio channels, you might need to change that at input or output so that input bus is different from output bus.

[epauley]

epauley,
How are you currently Recording your keyboard tracks? via rewire or directly (and what is the input source to RW and output from RW if directly?

Via rewire, which from what I can tell is the only way to record in RWS.

1. The Midi keyboard is running directly into my computer through a USB cable.

2. The PODxt is also running directly into my computer through another USB cable with the right and left outputs going to studio monitors.

3. GearBox, Reason 4 and RWS are all running. However, to record Reason sample sounds using the midi keyboard as the interface, I must switch to my computer's Creative ASIO sound card. The keyboard produces no sound if I try to use the ASIO sound card in the PODxt.


as it seems whatever is in other RW layers is being routed back into input along with your keyboard signal and thus recording.

True.

if your audio interface supports more than 2 asio channels, you might need to change that at input or output so that input bus is different from output bus.

Can you explain this further?

[atalwar]

I don't think you can directly record at RW Input via Rewire. As far as i knew mixdown was the only way to get recorded things from Reason/other rewire salve in RW.

Also when using rewire there should be no need to switch to creative as the rewire slave should use whatever the host(RW) is using.

Ok Now Back to the problem.

You Problem might be due to creative Asio internal routing which you might be able change in its device panel/mixer. However i doubt that will solve the problem.


The other way (that i use for my setup) is to connect your pod and creatve card via an external audio cable. If you creative has analog input/line in that is accessible over asio , Then you can record reason tracks in stereo. I am listing both ways here and either one should work though second method will only be mono but has it's own benefits.

Here is how.

Connect the pod Headphone out(adjust level knob on pod to avoid clipping) to your creative cards input (line in /audio 1 ..2.. ) via an external cable with 1/8" male connector on pods side and a respective connector on creative side.

IMP: Launch Reason first(so it does become slave of RW) and set it's audio interface to ASIO PODxt Live. now what ever you play on reason will come though your monitors via pod and pod's headphone signal will also go to creative card's input.

Launch RW and set its asio device to be creative. If your creative cards input is routed correctly then you will hear the output at RW input and you can record in realtime.

IF you creative line in etc does not work with creative asio,

The opposite way (mono) is to choose creative as interface in reason.
connect creative's analog speaker out (via a cable) to pod's guitar/instrument input via the 1/4" jack and in RW choose POD as the interface.
The plus here is that you can use all of pods hardware fx/preamp on your keyboard track.

In the both ways above reason or any daw would run standalone of RW and not in REWIRE mode.

However note that the latency will be sum of that of pod and creative and little bit of quality will suffer due to A/D and D/A conversions.

[gdavis2]

I record the same way but use Project 5 with Dimension Pro with a MIDI keyboard. It does appear that in the current state, you must mix down the track in which the effects are rewired to actually "record" them in Riffworks.

[epauley]

Hey, thanks guys! I haven't had an opportunity to try your advice yet. Our friend gator suggested a simular approach.