Satriani Sues Coldplay

[lostylost]

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/12/coldplay-satria.html

What do you guys think?

I think it's inevitable that things are going to be discovered more than once.

How many times was the wheel(/whatever) invented independently?

I can't imagine anyone knowingly sitting down and saying `yeah let's lift this`.

[pooterpatty]

I listened to both tunes, and I don't think Satch has a leg to stand on. The most I could say is that those melodies are "remotely similar", but I mean come on - they're not even in the same friggin key! The rhythmic feel is also totally different. I know I've heard similar melodies to that before in different songs, and Satch didn't invent it.

Jeez Satriani is already a millionaire and has the adoration of guitar players across the globe and is arguably one of the best players of all time - what more could you want? I guess when you get that rich you start to get paranoid that everybody's trying to rip you off.

I just lost a lot of respect for Joe Satriani.

[Charvelguy]

You don't have to be in the same key to plagiarize an idea though as far as the point goes. Blantent copying would be so obvious that at a national level for which both are on it would be case closed, door shut for one of them. Now if someone had leaked they got the idea and were to bear witness like what happened with Harrison and his manager who bought the publisher and the rights of the tune Harrison was accused of 'borrowing' which cost him alot of money.

The difficulty lies in proving a guitar instrumental being altered and taken to a vocalist level with some extreme orchestration. I hear similarities between the two and there is definite resemblence, and of course, if you wrote the tune, you know you're own child better than anyone else. I'm sure he was quite like.. wth, "thats my melody!"

I haven't lost respect for Joe over this.. I lost respect for him over comments like we as players suck if were not playing out on a level that he went through, live or otherwise.
Either way, its great publicity for both artists and their songs.

[Charvelguy]

Wow, that whole deal with Harrison and Klein is quite the rollercoaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HelenWatt/Plagiarism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Klein

Though I walk in the shadow of the valley of evil, I have no fear, as I am the biggest bastard in the valley."

So it seems, the industry is somewhat heartless overall.

[MediaTechGuy]

Does anyone know what constitutes plagiarism or copyright infringement in music composition anyways? Last I heard it was a maximum of 4 notes of the same melody could be used. If 5 notes were used then it would be infringement.

And Losty is correct. It is inevitable that things will be discovered more than once. Afterall, there are only 7 notes in a diatonic scale in western music! I often find myself writing something and after realizing that I have heard it before or something really similar to it. It happened completely by accident or subconsciously. Does that happen to anyone else here?

[ShredRex]

Wow........lol

I can see why Joe is upset for sure......should be interesting to see how this turns out. I am not gonna side with either artist, but think Joe has a right to be a little concerned.......suing is another thing.

[Charvelguy]

The overlay on this pretty much says it all IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I&eurl=http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/off-topic-tavern/450909-satriani-files-lawsuit-against-coldplay.html&feature=player_embedded

I think Poot is right though, I believe I have heard this melody or similar before. Its a matter of copyright though, in the sceme of timeframe Satch is copyrighted before CP until CP could prove otherwise or not having 'borrowed'

[ShredRex]

Wow that vid really illustrates the point......lol

Sounds good when they both together....WOW

[Charvelguy]

Does anyone know what constitutes plagiarism or copyright infringement in music composition anyways? Last I heard it was a maximum of 4 notes of the same melody could be used. If 5 notes were used then it would be infringement.

And Losty is correct. It is inevitable that things will be discovered more than once. Afterall, there are only 7 notes in a diatonic scale in western music! I often find myself writing something and after realizing that I have heard it before or something really similar to it. It happened completely by accident or subconsciously. Does that happen to anyone else here?

Yeah, I inadvertantly copied a part from a Sheryl Crow tune and added some harmony groove and a little slink to the line with some passing tone stuff and had it in a rifflink....still, I didn't realize it at the time that I probably had picked up upon it from some public source. I had not realized it until my girlfriend said something that they sounded the same. she pretty much is said to have borrowed it from the Stones, but its a typical blues based chord riff, I'm sure its been used in different contexts quite often.

[pooterpatty]

If that's true then we're all plagiarists. How many times have we all jammed on a I-IV-V blues chord progression. I hope Joe didn't invent that one too.

[Charvelguy]

Thats a very valid point, but if it sounds the same and is copywritten and marketed, its thiers unless they borrowed diectly from someone. Much the same deal here when we have ideas and good luck enforcing its yours should someone 'borrow it' w/o crediting. If they did credit, then you are still out likely royalties fromwhat I understand no?
If someone borrowed a main riff/meoldy from one of your tunes, how woudl you feel about that?

Bottom line is you're entitled to think Satch has no pot to pee in and he's a jerk for doing it, as it is true, it has all been done before in one respect or another.

Usually copyright in popular music is asscocaited with lyrical aspects along with the melody.

Check out 5:30 of this tune and tell me it don't sound like Moores "Still Got the Blues", which to me is also very similar but different to Moores "the Loner"

Gary lost:
BERLIN (Reuters) – A German court has ordered former Thin Lizzy guitarist Gary Moore to pay damages after ruling the guitar solo in his 1990 hit "Still Got the Blues" had been plagiarized from a German song written in 1974.

A court in the southern city of Munich said on Wednesday the solo in Moore's song was too similar to the one in "Nordrach" by the band Jud's Gallery not to have been copied -- even though the German song was not available on record at the time.

In a statement, the court ordered Moore, 56, from Northern Ireland, and his record label to pay damages to band leader Juergen Winter who brought the case. The amount has yet to be fixed.

Moore had denied knowing the song, which the court said could only have been heard live or on radio at the time.

The court said it had no evidence the solo had been lifted deliberately, but that this was immaterial in copyright infringement.

Moore can appeal against the decision.

"Still Got the Blues" was the title track on Moore's album of the same name, one of the guitarist's most successful records. According to online chart database everyhit.com the single reached 31 in the British singles charts in May 1990.

Moore played with Thin Lizzy for a few months in 1974 and again in 1978-79 before leaving the Irish band to start a solo career.

[Sandman]

Similar yes, but also similar to santana riff i've heard recently. Isn't there some 7 or 15 note rule or something? I think Bowie (under pressure) sued Vanilla Ice over it. Not sure of the outcome.

Don't know about you, but I'm guilty as hell....

[Sandman]

In fact, everything I ever did was comprised of elements from somebody elses stuff. Gosh, now I feel guilty... NOT.

Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

[MediaTechGuy]

The chord progressions in the two songs sound identical and the melody sounds very close. But you cannot copyright chord progressions. If that was the case then there would have been thousands of law suits over the years. It is the melody that is key and no one will really know until the songs are written out in traditional music notation and compared. Thats what happend in the George Harrison case. They had huge boards with musical staffs printed on them for the judge and jury to see.

Anyone know what the rule for copyrighting a melody is....5, 7, 15 notes?

[redbaron]

BERLIN (Reuters) – A German court has ordered former Thin Lizzy guitarist Gary Moore to pay damages after ruling the guitar solo in his 1990 hit "Still Got the Blues" had been plagiarized from a German song written in 1974.

Firstly I can't believe that these Reuters people still identify Gary as "former Thin Lizzy guitarist". I wonder what they'd call Clapton? "Eric Clapton, formerly with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers"?

Secondly, as undignified as it sounds: Satch does not live off being our hero. He is a working man earning his rent by playing music. And like in any creative profession, musicians too may be wary about their creative property. In my industry (Internet), NDAs are signed and E-Mail communications are being encrypted to protect ideas all the time (at least by the more paranoid among us).

Around me there's constant talk about who copied whose idea to make it big; at least two companies I know are currently being sued for allegedly having been too close to concepts that originally came from the U.S. The battle about intellectual property goes on everywhere, in every profession, and it's always ugly.

Best to look away, really. Best not to notice that behind the music that moves us there's as many unpleasant goings-on as in any other industry. What can you say? It's all too human...