1

Topic: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

This post is to address one of the most debated aspects of RiffWorld, the charts. Currently, the charts reflect the amount of plays a song gets. Songs can be posted on Myspace profiles, personal websites, and other social media pages. Many users are using this sort of linkage to drive traffic to their RIffWorld page and get their music heard. This system was implemented to allow users to share their songs with everyone and get more eyes on RiffWorld. The more people hear great music and come to the site, the better it is for everyone. More users equals more music, more collabs, more resources, more fun.

We realize that the way the charts work needs to be updated so that all members feel it is fair. We have a few ideas on the table and  welcome any suggestions. Please use this and this post only to voice your feelings about the charts and any suggestions for improvements you have. Post here, and do so in a positive way, and you will be heard.

We are very deep into the 2.6 update and simply do not have the resources to address the site at this time. After 2.6 is launched, we will turn our attention to RiffWorld. Please be patient, and please express any opinions in a positive way and through the proper channels. In due time, we will do our best to implement a new method that users find fair and still allow them to promote their music.

Rock on,

Daniel Codella - Sonoma Wire Works Marketing + Artist Relations

2

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

I don't see the need for the charts.  You should continue to record the number of plays so the artist casting their music knows how many plays. But, by all means eliminate all references to the chart(s). I'll happily relinquish my "Chart Topper" trophies.

My RiffWorld
Mat 6:33  "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."

Mixposure

3

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

There is no more wrong with the Riffworld charts than any other charts and I doubt that anything will make them better.

They are like weapons and vehicles............dangerous in the wrong hands roll

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945

4

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

I admire Daniel and Sonoma for posting/hosting this.  I agree with bluesydude and admire his clarity. I would personally take down the charts and find a whole new way to spotlight a wider variety of the users who make such great music.

I agree that its good for Sonoma and users to spread RW music via other music sites.  But a play based system corrupts eventually as it 'rewards' anyone tempted to overplay their own songs. They might (?) end up dominating the front pages on the site. And consign so many hard working users to RW oblivion.

I have raised the issue via song, forum and offline. But this week some very unfair things were done - I won't take forum time on detail. But if you're characterised as a 'sad crying leprechaun' and worse (..) among RW users on a different site. Then the charts have won, again. So thats why whatyoudo must die and I'll kill him myself thanks.

But Wedgebill, never give up. RW have created a product of beauty. And are blameless in this chart sham. Users decide what to do and how. The mostly silent community does not have to tolerate self promotion that goes too far. Or RW could become as soul-less as MySpace.  Here's my stop. Bye

5

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Me give up ??? That'll be the day that I die mate lol

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945

6

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

I couldn't care less about the charts and (the possible) abuse of them ...
and I don't understand the big deal about it ...
and it is beyond me ...
how it's even possible that such a non-issue can waste so much space in our forums ...
could we just leave it, it's boring the blep out of me ... ???

This is supposed to be a warm, spirited and FUN place to hang around ...

7

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Interesting post JouniL. You are totally entitled to your opinion. I agree with lots of what you say. But your opinion presumably is no more important than mine or the others who posted? And Sonoma have decided to raise it. IMHO if views are expressed here with respect then its useful. So I would hope that Sonoma, moderators and users will be allowed to hear anything useful/reasonable put forward.

Yes RW is supposed to be 'warm, spirited and FUN to hang around'. But its a fact that some of us (..) have had angry shouts and now insulting Facebook comments from other RW users (..) for trying to raise the topic (if you dont believe me drop me an offline email and you can read it yourself). So this 'sad little leprechaun' is just curious to hear a few more opinions ON TOPIC before departure. If there's something wrong with that, well then ...

8

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

JouniL wrote:

I couldn't care less about the charts and (the possible) abuse of them ...
and I don't understand the big deal about it ...
and it is beyond me ...
how it's even possible that such a non-issue can waste so much space in our forums ...
could we just leave it, it's boring the blep out of me ... ???

This is supposed to be a warm, spirited and FUN place to hang around ...


  Exactly ....JouniL.....too much negative energy being expended here....on the non-relevant  charts....as far as I'm concerned.

There has been much abuse of the charts going back a few years now, by many.....until the charts are removed or the cheating loopholes are negated this will continue to happen.   So time to move on. cool

9

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

It wouldnt be on my ltop list of things to fix, but I think it would be useful to improve the browsing by genre with clear lists in upload order in each genre of music, if a user could sort them by number of plays that would be fine too. But I really want to customize how I view Riffworld, if that is even possible. For instance, I'd like to subscribe to different peoples posts and receive email notification, and I'd really like to receive email notification when someone has added to a  rifflink of mine.

The charts could be useful for each person to view their own stats, if that makes them happy, but it doesnt necessarily need to be posted anywhere public imo. Just having a way to pull up your stats when you want to view them would also be fine imo.

10

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Ok, WYD, point taken so here is some constructive input on the topic:

Daily, weekly, monthly, all-time-high stats in various categories and/or genres applicable to a person, groups of persons or all persons in Riffworld would be perfect. Add to that the ability to make a chart playable like a playlist or a podcast and we are home.

Regarding the possible cheating in these charts, I can only agree with this person :-) ->

http://i.imgur.com/bVthK.jpg

11

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

LOL!! thats a good one jouniL

it`s never to late to change your mind

12

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Well people know my view; I'm with Jouni and Mickey and others on the charts issue; i.e. it's just not an issue for me. I never check the charts, don't care if I'm in them or not, and don't care who is. Ray, just chill about it, I just don't get why they are such an issue for you, although if they are an issue for you then that's up to you. But most of the long time members on here that I tend to interact with don't care about the charts (either negatively or positively). Why? because they don't represent anything; neither quality, talent or prestige. They are simply a distraction on the RW page, and I'm pretty sure the only people checking out the charts are those in them.

"You can cage the singer but not the song."

13

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Based on what I've seen with the charts over the period of time they've been in existence I think the next Rumble is gonna be extremely interesting, there's every chance that some contestants will will turn up in the vehicles bearing the weapons I already mentioned. I already bear the scars from winning one myself. It's still in my list of riffcasts, it has about 0 plays 0 shouts and 0 trophies but I still have distinct memories of the nasty comments and copies of the hate mail I received. For anyone who's interested, this is part of the reason why I rarely comment on peoples songs nowadays. My other reasons are being accused of cheating in the charts and only commenting on other peoples songs in order to get them to comment on mine.

Nowadays, rather than trying to compete with other users to be first to comment as I used to I make my music and keep my mouth shut.

Charts with virtual trophies are one thing but more Rumbles with REAL prizes, God help us all !!!!!!! roll

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945

14

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

In reply to Daniels initial requests - ways to improve.

Allow only people who have NOT CREATED a tune to make continual plays of  material - simply get your technical guys to check the IP address - this will make the charts relevant and true, since if someone does like it or have a fanbase, then shouts could have a similar percentage to plays, the reverse though could also be true, since if you happen to be Phil Collins (I've been a big fan for years), the amount of negative shouts would exceed the amount of plays of his current album, if he was on RiffWorld (I'd tell him myself).

Or simply remove the current chart and have a chart of music solely built from the collaborations, so if you ain't in it, then you can't complain about not being a part, because that in the end is your call.

And please remove any material that is called either "test", "demo", "just something I cooked up on my ipod", etc and move all ipod created tunes to a seperate chart entirely, so that those who use PC or MACs get at least a viewing, if they post there music.

I think and I may have said this before SHOUTS are more important, be they negative or positive, constructive or demonstrative, so maybe a chart build on Shouts could also be an option.

But finally if shouts become detrimental on a personal, and not musical level, then ban them from this site - if there music is as good as they believe it to be, they would survive any backlash, there is no need to degrade this website, which in turn could cause people to leave. I don't like metallica, but does that make me someone to be abused for my of dislike them? (there great musicians though).

Last edited by brillstereodeck (2010-10-17 08:42:06)

... its only knock and know all, but I like it....
check out  http://www.brillstereodeck.com

15

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Am only posting to tie up some loose ends. cwight you are so right. Appointing myself as some kind of chart sheriff to clean up town was too much. If I could go back I would heed WedgeBill's wise advice that raising this topic can be self-defeating. Gotta say though Bill your post above speaks volumes, and I hope some people listen.

I apologise to anyone that I upset along the way. That genuinely wasn't my intention. All I will say is I felt that raising awareness of unfair behaviour in a community of equals was a cause of the common man. B Springsteen, B Dylan, and Damien Dempsey (an Irish singer) encapsulate that way better than WYD ever could. The superb product, allowing musicians to dream dreams and fly them high, is bigger than any individual. My distracting from that is over.

Last  thought from me is via WedgeBill's masterpiece song 'Remember how you made them feel'. Life is not about whatyousayordo. Make people in your life feel special. In Irish we say 'Slan abhaile agus Dia dhuit'. It means safe home and God be with you smile

16

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Charts and trophys..their stupid and worthless..throw um in the trash and be done with it..problem solved

Born to play..Forced to work

17

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

To whom it may concern IMHO

Whilst I can empathise with Daniel's honourable request to keep this thread positive, I doubt that the silver lining in any cloud can be found by pretending the cloud isn't there.

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945

18

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

I'm sure there's a double negative in there somewhere Bill... smile

Last edited by cwight (2010-10-17 09:17:43)

"You can cage the singer but not the song."

19

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Yes there isn't not mate. If I have any claims to fame here, deserving multiple trophies, it is my continued teaching of the talking of bollocks and instructing Cwighty in the art of smiley insertion lol

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945

20

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Like this you mean... yikes.... sad .... wink

"You can cage the singer but not the song."

21

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Thanks for all your input. It nice to hear how you feel. We are considering the options, and plan continue to thoughtfully improve RiffWorld after the 2.6 update.

Inflammatory comments on any of our services, which go against our website terms of use, includes blaming or accusing people for cheating, name calling, insults, cussing, arguing with someone, etc. If you experience anything like this directed at you on one of our services, please contact support@sonomawireworks.com directly and immediately, telling us who offended you with as many details as possible, including dates, links, screen captures, and anything else you think will help, and we will deal with it offline, directly with the person if we feel it will help on a case by case basis. I suggest you respond to inflammatory comments with, "I do not wish to argue. I will email Sonoma about this so they are aware of the situation." It takes our time away from developing software to deal with inflammatory comments, but we'd rather deal with issues and people directly than let things get out of hand. If you experience this type of behavior on facebook or other sites and services, I suggest "unliking" the offending person. Ignoring an angry person, rather than bating them can often solve things easily (turn the other cheek). Please don't try to hash it out on our services with more name calling and blame because that is going against our website terms of use as well. Please don't let people get you down to the point where you say you'll delete your songs or profile because that makes us sad and we like to be happy smile

If you suspect someone is playing their own songs repeatedly to stay on the charts, please email support@sonomawireworks.com directly and immediately, telling us who you believe is doing this and why you suspect them, with as many details as possible, including dates, links, screen captures, and anything else you think will help, and we will deal with it offline, directly with the person, if we feel it will help on a case by case basis. Do not blame the person because you have no way of knowing if they are promoting their music or playing the songs themselves. It is inflammatory to blame someone publicly.

The reason we need you to email us details is because there is no way our small group of staff can keep up with all the comments going on, so we need your help if something goes wrong with the evidence to back it up.

We appreciate people linking to their songs from other websites to increase their listens - it helps spread the word about this fun community, and sells the software, which we need to survive. Word of mouth is a huge reason people buy RiffWorks, and RiffWorks is selling well, which is good for us and the RiffWorld community, so thanks to those who spread the word! I suggest, if someone cares about their song plays (or lack thereof), spend more time getting friends and the public to listen to your music rather than arguing with others about their song plays.

I'm going to go listen to your music now smile

22

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

I do not wish to argue about this wink

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945

23

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

I'm getting an iPhone. Don't know why I told you that, or if anyone cares, or what it's got to do with the charts really, but I AM getting an iPhone (along with an iPad, and a new iMac laptop)....Isn't life great... smile

"You can cage the singer but not the song."

24

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

There are charts?    yikes

Last edited by tmotech (2010-10-17 14:57:40)

25

Re: THE RIFFWORLD CHARTS

Nope Chris, there's a page with a list of songs that can be played and then argued about if you've got any spare time left after you've played them tongue

No-one remembers what you do or say. Everyone remembers how you made them feel. Allegedly !!!!

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/Wedgebill
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wedgebill … 2405167945