Sonoma Wire Works - Support Forums

by **meeny12** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:57 pm

Hi. Been using RW 1 for about a year now when time permits and I will say it is alot of fun, easy to use and for the most part trouble free. The issue that I have is that all my CD's that I have created lack clarity between instruments and tend to be somewhat muffled or muddied. This is especially true as more layers are added. The more layers I add the more sonic mush I make! I've tried the volume tweaks,panning L and R with each instrument etc., but the results are pretty much the same. I know RW has it's limitations, but as we all are, I'm trying to get as close to a commercially created CD sound as possible. Any advice on any tweaks, setups etc. is greatly appreciated. Thanks alot!

by **strychninekid** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:12 am

Use Eq for 1. Compression for 2. And if you are serious I would recommend getting a program for mastering your tracks such as Adobe Audition. If you can't get that I hear Audicy(spelling?) is good as well and it's free but never tried it. But for sure use some EQ and Compression for sure. Also here is a link to a mastering guide from Izotope.com that tells the basics of mastering quite well.

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/guides.html

Hope this helps

Peace

Rich

by **pbbobkanobi** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:13 am

I would listen to alot of RiffCaster songs and pick the ones that you think have great tone and ask those guys some advice. Music is so subjective and different people like different tone and have different approaches to recording mastering. Rich's advice is good. Just don't use too much compression or you will lose a lot of the dynamics of your individual tracks. EQ is very important also but try to get the best tone out of your instrument before you hit record. Post EQ should not be used too much if you can help it. Keep your rhythm tracks tight and uncluttered and layer on textures once you are happy with the overall tone of the backing tracks. Try some compression and EQ on the instant drummers, rex files, etc. to fatten it up. I have only been recording for about 2 years but have been playing for about 30 so I have alot of catching up to do....my best advise is to just keep playing and recording and have fun!

You can check some of my tunes here if you want:

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/riffcaster/index.php?artist=sweigartdesign@yahoo.com

by **strychninekid** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:29 am

Thanks Bob! One thing I have been told is Use small doses of both. Also was told to is you don't want to use EQ for the Low End. For that you would use like Multiband Dynamic processor program. I know It's alot to throw at someone and honestly there is alot to learn about it. Like Bob said it's personal preference. I would definately tell anyone interested in this to read that guide to get a Basic Idea. I have read it and use the Steps they recommend but I do have a program that I can do that..

Also it does take time and alot of listening of your tracks and I would reccommend listening to them in different formats and different atmospheres. What sounds good out of cheap computer speakers will sound totally different in your car or home stereo. I was told by a very good producer the first step to mastering is a good set of monitors.

Rich

by **mickeymix** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:39 am

Yo Meeny.... you'd be well advised to listen to Bobbo's advice and soak up what you can.......................
This cat is a MASTER mixer.......hands down!
And The Strychnine Kid meant "Audacity" a free program that does many things .............also another free program is "Reaper"
great stuff indeed ........
.
.
...............Mike/Mickeymix

by **Timejunkie** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:57 pm

A good set of monitors is a must...I am (well Gator is....LOL) in the process of stuggling with getting things to sound good in different environments...it is not easy but with persistance and time you will be able to do it.

Record as much as possible "dry" with no reverb etc...save that for mixdown.

Also, don't burn you ears out...I find 2 to 4 hours at a time tops...after that I can't tell what sounds good...if anything! LOL

Cheers,
Chip

by **strychninekid** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:16 pm

Chip

That is so true. Don't listen too much at once for sure and you should listen to other songs that are poduced well to get your ears back into shape so to speak. Also when you think you have it down and sounds good. Leave it and Listen the next day to see if you heard it correctly. Also try to get someone else to listen as well and get their perspective on it too. You may hear something they wont and vice versa. Also I go to a forum www.audiomastersforum.net that has some other good advice as well. Smart people over there for sure

Rich

by **meeny12** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:18 pm

Thanks to all who jumped in to offer advice. I'll be trying out your ideas. It's great to have a place to ask questions, get good response and share great ideas!

by **jamienelson** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:09 am

Magix Music Maker 11 has a very good and easy Mastering Suite that I have been using. Mix your project down to a wave file then import it into MMM11, Master it, and Save the Wave again and you’re done in about 5 minutes. It has a lot of presets that you can use or tweak too. That is all I really use the program for but it does have a lot of other uses like a wave editor and comes with a bunch of loops. I wouldn’t get the download version though, it’s cheaper, but they have taken a lot of features out. I think you can pick it up at Best Buy for $59.99, I got my copy on sale for $29.99. It also does 5.1 Surround Sound. I haven’t tried that out yet.
http://site.magix.net/english-us/home/music/music-maker-11-deluxe/

by **meeny12** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:29 am

Thanks Jamie. I'll give it a look!

by **strat** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:34 am

I also have Magix Music Maker 11 Deluxe and find it has some very usefull features..theres some cool vox efx,,auto tune/auto harmony/vocorder..for the $$ its pretty nice imo...Also,Audacity is free and i use it all the time..its a darn good program,,short learing curve..im a big fan of this program...peace out.. strat..

by **strychninekid** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:55 am

Just for the record to master a song takes more than 5 minutes. It takes a trained ear and alot of experience to get it right

by **jamienelson** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:48 pm

If you would like to hear the difference between my best effort of mastering with RiffWorks and the same song with Magix Music Maker 11 Deluxe, here are the links to the song.

I have posted my song “I Can Fly” on RiffCaster that was done completely in RiffWorks. http://www.sonomawireworks.com/riffcaster/post.php?/2467

The same song is on my website and has been mastered with MMM11.
http://www.jamienelson.net/express1/I_Can_Fly.html

I’ll have to check out Audacity. I haven’t heard of it before.

There are some good articles here on mixing and mastering too.
http://www.audio-recording-center.com/article-mixing.html

Rich,

You are correct. I over estimated the 5 minute mark. I do a lot of stuff that has the same acoustic properties and have made my own presets, so I can get it done faster. In the beginning it took several hours to find the sweet spots and save the settings. But, it still takes time to listen to the song again after applying the settings.

Peace out,

by **Timejunkie** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:22 pm

strychninekid wrote:Chip

That is so true. Don't listen too much at once for sure and you should listen to other songs that are poduced well to get your ears back into shape so to speak. Also when you think you have it down and sounds good. Leave it and Listen the next day to see if you heard it correctly. Also try to get someone else to listen as well and get their perspective on it too. You may hear something they wont and vice versa. Also I go to a forum www.audiomastersforum.net that has some other good advice as well. Smart people over there for sure

Rich

Thnaks for the link my friend. Gator is mastering this CD for me but I would like to take a crack at it some day just to see if I have the ears for it. Gator has beena wonderful mentor.

I think on this Cd I made some mistakes in recording but at this stage I have to live with what I have. I have learned a great deal though and the next project will be that much better for it.

I really need to work on the clarity of guitar sounds and placement of instruments in the audio scpectrum. A good set of monitors will be my next investment....my daughters "Barbie" headphones just aren't cutting it anymore! LOL

BTW...I really enjoy reading your posts...they are always professional and helpful.

Cheers, Chip

by **meeny12** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:55 pm

Thanks again to everyone for all their tips, links, etc. Looks like it's time to roll up the sleeves and get down to biz...... Jamie, I listened to your song , comparing RW and MMM11. Big difference. MMM11 version is much, much more dynamic and fuller. Thanks again all!!

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