debating on if i should buy standard, need help.

[versaln]

So far I'm not too impressed with T4, but I love the idea of riffworks.

Some questions first if you guys could help me out.

I record using either a pod toneport or a digitech rp355, both with usb. Despite the fact that both interfaces boast 'direct monitoring' i still have to lower my buffers alllll the way down to get 15ms latency, which generally results in pops and clicks. I thought at least the toneport was supposed to have 0 latency? I've got a nice new comp so i'm wondering if this is just something they kinda 'added in' for the T4 version?

Also, you get 4 layers, but I can only use 3. The 4th one I record is ALWAYS completely off timing from the rest of the layers. Same goes for the song layers. Completely unusable. Is this just because I have the T4 version?

Anyone know if I'm doing something wrong? I really like the idea behind this program, but before I drop $130 on it I want to make sure it's going to work.


Thanks,
Todd

[Stymie]

How much Ram do you have?

The reason I ask is that the problems you described sounds like it's on your end. T4 has a few restrictions, but degraded performance isn't one of them.

Ron

[GuitarSlinger]

You need to run Podfarm or Gearbox as a standalone application to get 0 latency, not as a vst within the program. But like Stymie says you may not have enough resources. Open your task mananger(right click the toolbar) and click the performance tab, now run Podfarm and then add Riffworks and see what is going on.

[versaln]

I have 4 gb of ram, 3ghz core2duo processor. I'm not using podfarm or gearbox at all, I plug an amp sim pedal into the input of the toneport and just use it as a usb device.

[Charvelguy]

You should be fine with that setup but as with anything, it really depends on how many processes running and config of the OS.
T4 should operate no different on your OS than standard, but std will have alot more flexibility and options to offer you.
Rewire, more tracks, drummers etc. Some people have experienced some latency issues with L6 products, so it may be a OS - processor issue more than anything else. You still have to be mindful of anti V and what processes are running in addition to Riffworks as it will want to have all its available processing headroom/resources.

There are programs out there that will allow you to dedicate a core exclusively to one program, some are freeware, maybe you should explore that venue before buying riffworks to see if it solves the ailment.

Personally T4 is a very limited taste of Std, and most programs will need a bit of tweaking to get it where it works for ya well.

[GuitarSlinger]

This is a better question for the Line 6 forum than the Riffworks one. Since the latency is from the Line6 driver and has little to do with Riffworks.

Since you are using an outboard pedal, you still need to run Podfarm or Gearbox. Use the output of the multiFX pedal to the Line inputs on the rear of the Toneport, select the Line inputs (Line Stereo)in Podfarm or Gearbox, and set up a patch with no effects on it. Verify you can get near 0 latency this way before starting Riffworks.

[versaln]

Nah I don't think its a line 6 problem, thats why i posted here. It does the same with the line 6 toneport and the digitech, and they both are usb/asio.

I also don't need to run podfarm or gearbox. But no, regardless of if i use podfarm or not I get nowhere near zero latency.

Its kind of strange to me how this works....my computer gets at best 15ms latency with all the buffers set on minimum, but when I record it sounds off like the latency is an issue. I tried the setup on my friends computer and his only goes down to like 27ms latency, but I recorded all 4 layers and a song layer with no problems at all. The only difference I can think of is I have windows 7 and he has XP. Spec wise my pc is waaaaay better than his.

I think I just hate computers...

[atalwar]

if you are getting pops and clicks at 15 ms latency then more than likely your system is not allowing too much resources for audio to function at low latency.

you can try downloading audacity audio editor and set it's audio device to your asio driver hit record and check. It should have far less resource requirement than riffworks and might give you a better idea where the problem lies.

Also zero latency usually refers to hardware monitoring, when recording, there is always some bit of latency involved,how much you will get depends on the amount of load your system can handle,and yet keep in pace with low latency.

when line6 refers as low latency, it means with their podram or gearbox, they don't introduce any additional latency,unlike vst plugins loaded in your recording program.
A possible reason could be that they offload the processing to the driver, or even to some in-built dsp chip.

[d3drocks]

ide suggest standard if only for the fact of .rex file support, and many more recordings. im not a big fan of the stock instant drummers tho. I only ever use 3 of all the ones that shipped with riffworks.
if your havign trouble with latency, your really running in your CPU. if you have a pre amping system (so its amped b4 the signal gets to riffworks) you can use the "hardware" button on the monitor section. this should save you ALOT of CPU. keep in mind that everything runing in the background such as instant messengers, web browsers, idol media players, etc all eat CPU. they may not take much on their own, but combined they can really eat up alot.

[GuitarSlinger]

Well Toneport can in fact get very near 0 latency on some very minimal specs. But the only way to acheive it is to monitor from the Toneport, headphones or speakers, with Podfarm or Gearbox running. This is the only way to use Tone Direct monitoring I believe. My system is quite slower than yours and I can crank the buffer as high as I want, 0 latency.

I don't see how this is an issue of Riffworks, if you can not get low latency just running the device by itself without Riffworks running.

Let us know what happens. Getting Standard is not going to change anything.

[GuitarSlinger]

If you route the audio to any other device like a soundcard then you will be forced to fight the buffers for the lowest latency which I never have to deal with. Tone Direct really works.

[versaln]

Okay guitarslinger, let me clear this up, cause I just can't believe you:

When you open podfarm the program, then open riffworks, and click on audio setup, the number by 'ASIO Device Latency - Total' is zero? Really?

I'll agree with you that I HEAR zero latency, but whenever I record 4 layers they are always off of the metronome when I play them back, usually just the 4th one. As I play the guitar though the sound coming from the headphones plugged into the toneport is indeed immediate, no latency.

I know its not a line6 problem because the exact same thing happens when I use the usb on my RP-355. Headphone sound is zero latency, sounds great. But when I record some stuff and play it back, then it's off.

Maybe that can clear up the problem I am having. It's not the line 6 stuff, its riffworks. I even pulled out the old cakewalk home studio program I have and fired it up, I get 1.3 ms latency with it. But as I said, I love the idea of riffworks, and I really want it to work. I love using loops and so far its the easiest looping/recording program I have seen...I just want it to work right....

[GuitarSlinger]

Your right, that number is much higher. I don't know about the digitech, but Line6 bounces the signal back before it hits the software, so you can monitor in real time, but the signal that is recorded has a fair amount of latency which shouldn't matter because you are not hearing it. So Riffworks is is out of sync with the Tone Direct? That makes sense and would indicate a Riffworks problem?

I'm running my P4 3.2ghz dinosaur with 2 Gbs ram at buffer settings of 1024 and 24 bit.

There is always customer support, I just don't see standard as being any different.

[atalwar]

versaln,
just a shot in the dark, bit can you try minimize riffworks window and record.
like set countin hit record minimize and then record your riff.
I think i have had this issue in the past.

also see if you can set default riffworks record location to a different drive if you have multiple internal drives in system.

if you can give your system specs(ram, cpu, vga..) maybe we can throw in a tip or 2.

also changing riffworks application priority in windows task manager(assuming you are on windows) might improve things for you a bit too.



also try to monitor

[versaln]

Okay, thanks for all the help everybody! Changing the record location to a secondary drive did the trick. Who would have thought.....not me.