Guitar lessons / training

[lostylost]

What do you guys all think about practicing scales along to a metronome etc. As opposed to just dumping down a loop and messing around trying to find notes that harmonize / sound good?

I tend to just use the pentatonic scale and look for the notes in the chords to find a shape.

I suppose the question boils down to exercises vs just trying to make music from the get go.

Also, where are your minds when you more advanced players are busting out leads? Are you following the chord progression in your mind, with a kind of join the dots phrasing game? Or does it just flow more intuitively.

A lot of the time when I'm trying to play lead I lose awareness of the musical surroundings. To me I think of it as widescreen kind of like peripheral vision, but my scope always contracts a lot. I'm wondering whether I should try and practice keeping more aware or is that over thinking too much?

Are you guys anticipating what you are going to play next? I'm trying to imagine what it's like mentally.... I know in a lot of things like martial arts it's the concentration stuff that makes the difference.

Technique
Ear training
THE NEXT LEVEL

I have enough technique for the sort of crap I wanna play so I suppose.... ear training is what I'm getting at... Any one got some tips for ear training ?

Whats the best way to develop you ear quickly?

[cwight]

Both scales and playing along to a groove have their place. Scales help you focus on your technique and are great for learning your way around the fretboard. But don't just play them in a linear fashion use different intervals as well: i.e. Gmaj scale....go G,B,A,C,B,D,C,E,D,F#,E,G continue for 2 octaves and reverse it coming down the scale. You'll see what I mean when you try and play it. But don't just do scales, do chromatic stuff as well to force your fingers to do stuff you normally wouldn't. I always think practicing is all about doing stuff you can't do, and normally don't, whereas playing is about honing down what you can do and stretching it. As for ear training, learn as many different songs and styles as you can. Ultimately, unless you are Hendrix it comes down to time and patience and start slow, get clean....I never learnt that lesson until way too late.....

[lostylost]

practice != playing

Noted. Basically I would like to be able to sit in and jam with muso's and just hook in.

Right now it's all very hit and miss.

[redbaron]

I used to give lessons in my early days, and I asked my pupils to bring me the stuff they best liked - be it rhythm or solo playing. At the same time, I prepared a shortlist of pieces that I thought demonstrated a certain style very well. It all circulated around rock, metal and blues.

Then, I showed them how the pieces were played, just taking two bars at a time. And we discussed particularly why this appealed to us so much - the sound? The speed? A certain sequence of chords and tones? Then, I asked them to come up with something in that same sound, speed or sequence until next week themselves.

In other words: My approach was always to learn to play other people's great music, at the same time de-mystifying it, showing that anyone can play it with some practice. Me being no shredder, this excluded the Malmsteen and other sweeping stuff, of course. The upside of this is that you learn to play music, not scales. The downside is that you don't really push yourself - you play only what you like and comes easy to you.

And secondly, I've always played by ear, I have no idea how scales work - meaning that I couldn't have taught anyone to play scales anyway...

[lostylost]

Interesting approach, somewhat analytical but not in the sense of, "here so and so is playing scale MixedupOldIan emphasising the 9th note" but more of getting them to just break it down into their own terms they understand.

As far as playing by ear, what do you mean by that? You have perfect pitch? Or do you mean that you have always worked things out by ear and played by what sounds good rather than some scientific method?

So learn heaps of music and pay attention to what they are doing. Damn, I wish I had the time I had when I was a teenager playing. Life is too short, too many things to do.

[cwight]

Here go, here is a nice little tool that lets you play along in different keys and different styles. Also if you click on the scales it will show what the suggested ones look like on the fretboard.....even the Baron might be able do the scales then. Although, all joking aside I learnt the way he suggests by pulling a song apart in my own terms and not knowing about the scales until later. Even now I don't think....'er today I will mostly play dorian', I just mess around till it works....if ever.....

http://www.jamcenter.com/jammachinea.html

[redbaron]

No, the perfect pitch is when you can recognise any note by their pitch. If you have perfect pitch, you could tune your guitar in A without a tuner or reference tone. Only geniusses have that

"By ear" means just that you recognize what's harmonic and what's disharmonic and play accordingly. It starts really easy by recognizing that the note "c" will always fit over a chord sequence like, say, C/F/G. After a while, you realize that pretty much the entire C scale will fit to that, and a C scale is what your fingers play more or less automatically.

In the next step, you stick to playing the C scale over just about everything - you only need to find a starting note that's not disharmonic. You don't even need to know what key the song is in, all you do is move your first finger up the fretboard from the 3rd fret until you find a note that's harmonic to the song you're listening to. And start playing the trusted C scale from there. If anything sounds disharmonic, just play the note one fret higher and you're in again.

This, in a nutshell, is redbaron's Guide to Soloing For Dummies, and some say you can tell from most of my compositions

[lostylost]

I'll look into that jammachine. I was kind of hoping I would be able to do that with rifftracks out of the box... importing mp3 backing tracks etc

Thanks guys.

[ShredRex]

I used to practise scales and such to metronome when I first started playing.....it is a very good thing to do if you want to work on technique. I learned to alternate pick that way. Now I have a hard time slowing the riffs down to do such a thing. But it is a great warm up for me now. Sometimes when I am just not on my game, I go back to the basics to sharpen up a bit.....walk before you can run sort of thing ya know.

I do also like to just noodle over a rhythm loop to....cause that is where you get a feel for what modes/scales fit certain situations. Plus you get to start working on the phrasing......scales are great, but the alternate phrasing and little twist you throw in are what makes it sound like you....and alive. Running up and down scales ala Yngwie gets real boring real quick.....for the player and listener.

When it comes to leads, I just noodle until I find what I like. It may take 2 takes, it may take 100........but I do not focus on the technical side of the lead or solo......what sounds good matters most. When I am really on my game, and in the zone it just feels right.....meaning you just tilt your head back and play what you feel.....think with your hands not your head if that makes any sense.

To develop your ear...try playing with your eyes closed. Get to know what the chords and scales sound like......know where they are on the neck blindly........have someone play chords behind your back and try to guess what they are playing. Worked for me......

[pooterpatty]

No, the perfect pitch is when you can recognise any note by their pitch. If you have perfect pitch, you could tune your guitar in A without a tuner or reference tone. Only geniusses have that

I've had a few guitar teachers tell me I have perfect pitch - if that makes me a genius, then why can't I seem to balance my checkbook?

Seriously though, all the advice given here is good. As far as developing your ear, I think everyone does that a little differently. I've kinda just always had it, as far back as I can remember anyway - its the theory stuff that mystifies me.

When you learn a lot of other people's songs, you'll start to do it naturally. Pretty soon you'll be able to listen to the first 4 bars of a song and say "That's in drop D", or "that's a standard 12-bar blues progression in G major" and people will look at you as if you've done something magical. I like to carry around a long staff with a crystal in the end and wear long flowing robes and a silly hat to reinforce that image, no sense in bursting everyone's bubble eh?

[Wedgebill]

Help him out then Pooter, Pootcast a spell on him (and me while you're at it), the only scales I know anything about have gills and fins and stuff with 'em :rolleyes:

[lostylost]

"When it comes to leads, I just noodle until I find what I like. It may take 2 takes, it may take 100........"

That pretty much seems to be my process, just need to do more of it. Plus learn a bit of scale theory in between so picking the right scale to noodle with is a bit less hit and miss.

"have someone play chords behind your back and try to guess what they are playing. Worked for me......"

I think "someone" would get very impatient, I'll see If I can knock up some sort of script for that.

I have been reading about metronomes for alternate picking, I think that sounds a good idea, I always try and go too fast too quick. I'm not really all that into shredding but I do like the fast stuff if it's part of a build up or something. But Yngwie sucks!

Pooter, you're a lucky bugger but your missing out on all that sense of mystery us stone ears have.....

I got a torrent the other day with like 110 000 tabs..... no excuse not to learn heaps of songs now.... It's pretty much all on a silver platter these days... riffworks, tabs.

Cheers again.

[jamienelson]

Jamie Nelson’s Pentatonic Scale Lesson

The following are diagrams of the 5 Pentatonic Scale Patterns and how they connect together on the fretboard. Notice that the top pattern and the bottom pattern are the same. The patterns begin to repeat themselves at the 12th fret. The Blue dots represent the Major Tonics (Root notes) and the YellowBlack dots represent the Relative Minor Tonics. Just slide the patterns left and right on the fretboard to match the Tonic notes up with the key notes of the song you’re playing to match the key of the song.

Generally in rock music if you are playing a song in a major key your solo will be in the relative minor key. So, if you look at the top pattern, if your song is in the Key of G (the blue dot) you would use the E Minor Pentatonic Scale to solo (the YellowBlack dot).

The G Major Pentatonic Scale and E Minor Pentatonic Scale contain the same notes. A lot of Bluegrass Pickin’ is done in the first 2 patterns shown, since a lot of bluegrass tunes are played in the key of G Major and use the G Major Pentatonic Scale for the melodies.

Major Keys tend to give off a happier over all vibe to your sound and Minor Keys tend to have a sad or darker mood attached to them.

All the scales and modes can be based off these 5 patterns. You can just add or subtract the extra notes to them. That is why these patterns are a good place to start and are so revered in the guitar world.

Another question that is seldom answered is “Do I have to change Scales when the song changes chords?” The answer is typically “No, you don’t need to, because the notes in the chord progression should already be in the scale that you are already using.”

It may not be obvious to beginners and practicing scales don’t sound like guitar solos, the main idea of a scale is to give you the notes and the patterns that should sound good with the chord progressions that the song is using. You wouldn’t play a straight scale over a chord progression in a song, what you would want to do is use the other tricks of the trade such as hammer ons, pull offs, and slides, to make melodies with the notes that are in the scales.

I hope this helps to de-mystify scales for you.

Jamie

[jamienelson]

A good practice would be to record a G C D and E A B progression and then you can loop it in RiffWorks and practice playing these patterns over that.

Once you get the patterns down you can move on to other keys and work on playing the patterns over them. Such as A D E. Just slide the patterns to the right 2 frets.

Let say you want to play a Bm Pentatonic Scale. We slide the Tonic (Yellow/Black Dot) to the B note on the E string to move the patterns like this.

[lostylost]

Jamie, that's incredibly helpful, much appreciated! That does indeed look like the place to start.

I recognize two of the patterns (first and second) I have little finger boxes that I know sound good relatively to each other if you know what I mean. It will be handy when I'm groping about for the right notes.

That really layed it out in an easy to understand format, thanks again.

Now can you help me with the urge riff? I'm supposed to be working on a project atm, but it's so hard to concentrate. All I want to do is mess around with my new pod and RW. It's a serious problem.....

I suppose there's a good reason for the "junkies" moniker....