What's your workflow/songwriting method?

[dcodella]

I had a buddy of mine over the other day to work on music. I started just strumming some chord progressions, and then started to record the one I liked. He looked at me horrifed. "You write your rhythm before the melody???" I never thought that maybe the way I do things is strange. I know there's no right or wrong, but how do you all write music? Also, what are you favorite ways of breaking writer's block and getting inspired? For me, I need to get outside somewhere, being out in the open causes the creativity to flow. What about for you?

[lostylost]

He's the weirdo LOL

I'd say lots or even most people do it the way you described. The harmonic context of the chords imply a melody. The drums and the rhythmic pattern of the chords themselves also suggest certain phrases.

I don't write songs but I mess around trying to play leads. I tend to use the same process each time - though it's not really a conscious stepwise thing.

I usually just jam about improvising, trying to find phrases that work in certain places. If I know the background chords I'll know to use a certain pentatonic scale and whatever chords tones as a starting point for experimenting.

Play, record, listen * repeat.

So create a little mini vocabulary of phrases that work in certain places and then just it let it rip and "join the dots" improv style. Most of them end up getting thrown out Darwinism style.

Play, record, listen * repeat

Now instead of tiny phrases, will look at sequences of phrases. And keep messing about until something sounds good ( to me anyway )

So, lot's of trial and error really and listening about for "happy accidents" to string together.

[EvanBerard]

Over the past few weeks, I have been developing a rather strange songwriter method for a RiffWorks user. I start with an arrangement in mind, then I make 6-8 riffs and start working with the drums first. For the drums, I start by tweaking the compression and EQ and then work with the different parts and ID knobs until I get something that I can write over. So basically at the beginning, I have about 3:00 of drum track. Next, I lay down some prechorus rhythm first, then I do the chorus, 2 bar transition, bridge, outro (same as chorus) and verse riffs last. I always write in this order for some reason. - all with my [url=evanberard.com/files/1 L6 Modern High Gain+Solo 100 Head.l6t]secret[/url] guitar tone Next comes bass and then leads followed by vocals.

My typical Arrangement:

[lostylost]

lol @ "secret" guitar tone with link to said tone.

I pretty much always just use a single loop and the song layer to record over.

However, I think I might try your approach Evan.

[lostylost]

Evan do you ever remove some of the rhythm guitar in lieu of something else? In other words use the original "secret sauce" as scaffolding?

[ThrobbyRobby]

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I just steal all my parts from other Junkies!.. Pirate style.... LOL

Just kidding....

[pooterpatty]

Usually it starts out with me just messing around, not with the idea of recording anything, but just enjoying playing the instrument (don't forget to do that!). Sometimes this noodling will lead to a riff that makes me say to myself, "self, you should record this". Most of the time, I'll get that first cool riff recorded and won't be able to come up with anything to follow it. This happens 9 times out of 10. That's why anyone who's been to the pooterpalace will tell you I have well over a hundred "songs" that are 1 or 2 riffs long that will probably never see the light of day because my creative mojo seems to have attention deficit disorder.

But sometimes (and I love it when this happens) you buy a new guitar, and in the first few minutes of playing it, a song writes itself.

[blue4u]

My typical Arrangement:

This is brilliant Evan! I like the approach of actually starting with the structure/skeleton/template already complete and in place. It forces the song to be finished before you even begin. Clever approach

[blue4u]

Most of the time, I'll get that first cool riff recorded and won't be able to come up with anything to follow it. This happens 9 times out of 10. That's why anyone who's been to the pooterpalace will tell you I have well over a hundred "songs" that are 1 or 2 riffs long that will probably never see the light of day because my creative mojo seems to have attention deficit disorder.

+1

On last count, I'm approaching 300 unfinished "song ideas" that will likely never be completed. Even when I come back to them, it seems like more work to finish the idea than just start with something new. It's kinda sad 'cos I've captured some really nice moments over the years. So it is...

As soon as I hit a spark (usually a guitar riff) I try to do the whole verse/chorus/bridge thing before I lose it. I often don't succeed but if I can keep going with it, I'll record 6 to 8 parts knowing that I'll probably throw away a couple of riffs in the end. I like to have some extras to play around with later. I have to see the basic idea through to the end if there's any hope for a song. This is also important so I can keep the same tone and vibe going. If I come back later, it's probably gonna be too hard to match everything up exactly the same way (even with saved presets).

Basically, I commit (or not) to sit there and work it out until the core concept (seed idea) is fully fleshed out. That's why I need a workflow that doesn't get in the way and allows me to work very quickly (thanks Riffworks!). It can be painful so I've learned to separate jamming and improvising from songwriting. Tbh, the whole process can be laborious. I would usually just rather jam

Other ideas:

1. I like creating riffs from the instant drummer as it forces me to play differently and lock in with the beat
2. It's fun to write from a bass guitar riff as its not my primary instrument (sh*t, I can barely play it!) so I can be really creative there (same goes for keyboards)
3. Pre-recorded samples can be great song starters
4. I'll sometimes take a chord progression from a song I like and write it in a different style, with a different tempo
5. I might play in a key that I'm not used to (like B flat) or use a capo to disorient me and make me play a different way (alternate tunings work great for this!)

Basically, I try not to be too predictable to keep from boring myself (and others ). I'm always searching for something off the map but I don't always find it. Anyway, songwriting is just hard...

[bazworld]

To be honest I don't really no how to set up a song
I have always just started by coming up with a riff and just trying to add to it,only recently have I thought about vocals ie chorus verses because of the way I have seen people like Evan etc doing it in rifflink ,it has changed the way I try and come up with tunes and made it more fun.
Rifflink helps in so many ways especially when you have run out of ideas with a tune some just comes along and transforms
it as they may see things in a different way.

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/bazworld/all-fuzzed-up-collab/

[cwight]

Ain't folks different. I couldn't work Evans way, I'd be worried it'd tend to make stuff formualic and having to fit the pattern. some songs don't need an instrumental, and some killer songs start out with no real intro. But hey, if it works for Evan it's all good. I'm sometimes in the pooter palace, noodling away with all sorts of stuff that never really gets beyond noodling, other times I'll be walking, running or at the gym and I'll get an idea in my head and have to go back home and work on getting the idea into shape. So like Daniel the outdoors works as a point of inspiration for me. I sometimes also bash a squash ball against the wall for an hour or so on my own; that kinda focuses the mind but also frees it. Writers block/insipration, well what does a junkie does when their mojo gone MIA? Well they get together and write a song about it of course:

http://www.riffworld.com/Members/cwight/what-to-do-when-your-musical-mojo-goes-on-vacation/?searchterm=mojo

[gatorjj]

I'd say yes to all of the above, and then some!

Sometimes I get an idea for a chorus riding in the car. Sometimes just messing around with the guitar something good pops out. Sometimes I get an idea for what a song should be about and then have to go write it...no words, no music, just a story line. Other times a line that would go good in a song pops in my head, and I go from there.

Whatever gets me started, what I like best about Riffworks is I can put a bunch of quick 4 bar options together, throw them at the song I'm trying to create and move them around/in & out to find a good flow very quickly. No need to program drums, just pick some that fit okay for the time being. Slap some vocals on the songlayer and in no time flat you have taken the idea in your head to tape (so to speak), where you can detach yourself from it and come back more objectively later.

[JouniL]

I have no idea, I just play it, usually takes 30 minutes to come up with a verse, chorus, a couple of breaks and an intro. After that I do the drums. After that I force myself to rerecord the guitars again but this time to play it without any glitches and nice transitions and tails. Sometimes I add bass and keys after this. Usually I also dub all the guitars just to make them sound fatter. I have a set of compressor and EQ presets for different guitars (rhytm, power chords, solo) and bass that helps me fit them into the mix. After that I just throw it at the Junkies (rifflink) where the magic happens

[lostylost]

How much you charge by the hour Jounil ?

[tmotech]

this is something I've only recently begun to think about. I guess for most of my life, sitting in a room with a drummer was always my biggest inspiration and most of my "riffs" would be created on the fly in a jam session, then hashed out over a few hours trying to come up with more "riffs" that fit with the other "riffs". WHICH IS WHY I LOVE "RIFF"WORKS!!!!

Now, my workflow is:

Plug into my guitarport connected to my computer with RIFFWORKS running.

(Like a few others in the post)- - Mess around with some INSTANT DRUMMERS, tweaking them until I find a cool beat that makes my fingers start to itch.

PICK UP MY GUITAR NOW AND HIT RECORD

record over a 64 bar riff a few passes. Listen back, repeat, etc.... like losty said.....

once I get something cool coming out of a little improve session, I dissect it and find out what chord progression, scale, melody's sound good over the idea(s), sometimes using them for bass lines right away to give the low end melody a voice

At that point is where things have changed for me over the last decade. I can't really explain how the changes and chorus and breaks happen, but with RiffWorks, it has made songwriting amazingly easy and fun! Now I can take the 4 parts or a dozen parts or however many I came up with and start putting them together in different orders. It's the same thing that my bands used to do, writing songs by saying "Hey, what if we did that part first, cut it short to two bars, THEN went into THAT part?" and we'd try, building a song piece by piece. What used to take 4 guys 3 or 4 hours to figure out, I can now do myself in a matter of minutes with RiffWorks.

So, my songwriting flow is truly RIFFWORKS!!!!

What is truly frustrating for me when it comes to writing music, is that I can come up with huge, complete song ideas while I'm at work or mowing the lawn or whatever, usually when I have no way of putting a guitar in my hands, but by the time I get to a guitar, it's a mere faded memory and I can't translate it to the guitar at that point. Literally hundreds of songs have just appeared and then been gone forever.

If I could invent anything, it would be a recorder that I could hook up to my brain and capture in all the details every last bit of the music I hear before it's gone again.......... then I could just go back and reverse engineer it.

Unfortunately for me, even when I have the luck of having a guitar in my hands when these songs come to me, for some reason as soon as I try and plunk the first few notes out on the guitar, the masterpiece that I had in my head quickly fades and morphs into whatever it is that I have started picking out on the guitar. It's very hard to explain! So my songwriting SOMETIMES is some distant echo of a song I had in my head in all it's insane glory! If only I could get all the notes and all the instruments and all the progressions and breaks and changes........ if only.............

In the end though, for me, it all comes back to this: NOTHING beats just havin' an awesome drummer kickin' out beats for your inspiration. Instant Drummers come close though!